Why has O'Brien never told this story before? Why does he decide to do so now?
Describe Elroy and analyze his influence on O'Brien and his ultimate decision. How does O'Brien reach his decision about whether or not to go to war? What role does shame/embarrassment/masculinity play in this decision?
What were your thoughts while reading this section? As always, feel free to respond to the above prompts or add your own ideas, questions, and interpretations. You may also respond to your classmates' posts, so we can have some interesting exchanges and debates.
I believe O'brien says that he iss a coward becuse he went against his own beliefs to conform to what he thought his parents, friends, and everyone else would think of him if he left. I also believe that O'brien never told this story because he was still scared of embaressement and the condisending thoughts of the people he is close to, I think O'brien chose to tell the story now because he needs to get it off his chest and because he is no longer scared of the thoughts of others.
ReplyDelete“I was a coward. I went to the war.” I think that when he says this, he means that he took the easy way out. I think he meant that going to war would be easier than staying in the U.S. or Canada. If he stayed, that meant he would have to deal with everyone’s opinions and judgment. When he imagined this, he was overwhelmed with guilt. He would have been thought of as weak. So the only option left was to go to war. I don’t agree that he was a coward. I think it takes guts to fight in a war.
ReplyDeleteI think that O’Brien never told this story before because he was afraid of others opinions. I think he told it now because he felt that it was safe. The war was thirty years ago. It was over. No one could judge him now.
The narrator of the chapter believes that he is a coward for going to war because of the reason he is going to war. He doesn’t want to go to war, he doesn’t want to fight, he doesn’t want the honor, he just wants his life at Harvard grad school. However, the narrator is so afraid of the ridicule he will receive from his family, friends, and neighbors that he couldn’t bring himself to cross over into Canada. The narrator believes that he is a coward for going to war. I don’t believe that actually going to war is cowardice, but I do believe that the reason he is going to war is cowardice. To go all the way to the Canadian border with Minnesota because he doesn’t agree with the war is not cowardice, rather it is egocentric. But to actually go to war just out of shame is undoubtedly cowardice. The blame for the narrator’s decision to go to war does fall slightly on Elroy, the motel owner’s, shoulders. Elroy had probably seen many people just like the narrator who had wanted to escape to Canada. Elroy had brought the narrator to the Rainy River, just a short swim from Canada, to show him that the opportunity was real. This put so much pressure on the narrator that he came to the conclusion that he just could not go to Canada. The narrator was a coward for letting the thoughts of others affect his decision.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien says "I was a coward. I went to the war.” because he found himself to be too much of a coward to attempt to escape it. He believed that going to war was not the cowardly thing to do and neither was running from it. The only cowardly thing he could have done was to be so close to running away and not taking the chance because he was afraid of people judging him. He did the one cowardly thing so he said "I was a coward. I went to the war.”
ReplyDeleteHe didn't tell the story before because he was still afraid of being judged by his readers and his family. Now that there is a newer generation of readers instead of other Vietnam vets like him to read his book he won't be as ridiculed because people have become able to understand the cowardice that he felt. It was 30 years after the war was over and people would have come to accept him and his stories by then.
The narrator says, “I was a coward. I went to the war.” Today, soldiers are lifted up as heroes; however, this soldier sees himself only as a coward. I believe he feels this way because he indicates he “chickened out” of his original plan of college, securing a job, and starting a family and instead conformed to the lifestyle others expected of him. He felt the war was really putting a standstill on his life plans. He gave himself the chance to leave the war behind him by creating a plan to go to Canada, but he could not bear the thought of disappointing those around him (family, friends, neighbors). He could not find peace in following his plan, so he chose to go to war.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel, Elroy further influences O’Brien’s decision when they venture out into the river and sit for awhile by not saying a word and just letting O’Brien listen to his own thoughts and conscience. As they sit between Canada and the United States, O’Brien contemplates pursuing his own desires vs. the shame that his family and friends would bestow upon him for abandoning the war. Elroy placed the opportunity right in front of O’Brien, the choice was his to make. However, shame, embarrassment, and masculinity overwhelmed him and played a major role in his decision. If those feelings placed upon his conscience by those whom he respected had not been present and he could have gone to Canada with a clear conscience to live his life, I’m sure the outcome would have been different. What others think of us and the choices we make tend to be decision makers due to the conflict of emotions and feelings of our desires vs. theirs.
“I was a coward. I went to the war.”
ReplyDeleteThis small quote holds many emotions for author Tim O’Brien. All throughout the book, O’Brien was explaining the horrors of war and if he could get out of it somehow, he would do almost anything to. During the war, O’Brien was forced to put on a brave face and act like a hero. The quote “I was a coward. I went to the war,” says to me that the war taught him a very important lesson. It taught him that no matter what, he should not be forced to do something he doesn’t want to do. That he shouldn’t go down without a fight. That he shouldn’t be “soft”. From this quote, I get the implications that everything in his being was against the war, but yet he lacked the courage needed to escape its clutches. He looks back at himself and understands how scared he was, but doesn’t understand how he hadn’t stood up for his beliefs. Especially now, since hindsight is 20/20.
While reading this section, my thoughts were about how relatable wanting to run away from life is. Just the idea of abandoning all the responsibilities and running to safety seems like a dream. I understood why O'Brien went to war. He was embarrassed and insecure about seeming weak and scared and irresponsible. I understood how it was cowardice, when someone who didn't see O'Brien's thoughts would have thought it was bravery. I really was grateful for Elroy Bergdahl. He was so kind and nonjudgemental; he let O'Brien make the decision for himself. I think everyone wishes they had a Bergdahl in their life, someone who unconditionally understands. Bergdahl is yet another example of how just having someone by your side supporting you makes things bearable.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of “On the Rainy River,” when the narrator says, “I was a coward. I went to war.” He means that he opted out of his own life plans. He had his future planned out to get a college degree and a job that would support his future family. He had this all figured out until he was drafted for the war. He had his chance to do what he wanted by going to Canada, but the disappointment and looking down upon by his family became too much. Elroy gives him a chance to either run away and move on as he planned with his life, or to go back and go to war. Shame, embarrassment, and masculinity play the role of making him see that going to war would make the others happiest. He would be fighting for them. But by not going to war he may feel ashamed and embarrassed by not going to serve his country. I disagree about him thinking of himself as a coward. It takes a lot of courage to go to war. He did not want to let his family down which shows a lot of loyalty. I believe by going to war he showed a lot of strength.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien believes that he is a coward for going to war because he went against his morals. The narrator disagreed with war and instead of sticking up for what he believed; he broke down and went to war. I disagree with the narrator. Like Olivia said, it takes a lot of courage to go to war. O’Brien has never told this story before because his is ashamed of his actions. I think O’Brien told this story now to get it off his chest and to thank Elroy for his help. Elroy played a huge part in O’Brien’s ultimate decision. Elroy allowed him to stay for six days to think things through. Elroy never made O’Brien explain his reasoning for thinking the way he did. Eventually, Elroy puts both of the narrator’s choices right in front of him and the narrator decides to go to war. I agree with Olivia, O’Brien is not a coward.
DeleteWhile reading this section I couldn’t help but to think of other soldiers and the internal conflicts that they face. This chapter made me realize how hard it must be for soldiers to drop everything and go to war. Like Olivia said, going to war shows a lot of strength. I couldn’t agree more. A soldier needs to not only be physically tough, but mentally tough also.
I believe that when the narrator says, "I was a coward. I went to the war." he means that he is ashamed at his reasons for going into the war. He wants to go to Harvard, but is so afraid of what all of his friends and family think. I believe that going into the war takes a very brave person, but I do not believe that O'Brien was very brave. He thought too much about what others thought about him, and this caused him to join the war for the wrong reasons. I think O'Brien told the story now because he is no longer afraid of what other people think, and besides, the war is done and over with and people are less likely to judge him and more likely to understand him.
ReplyDeleteO’brien labeled himself a coward because he knew that the reasons he went to war were not real reasons to go. He ran away to war for selfish reasons. Was it cowardice for him to go?
ReplyDeleteMaybe, maybe not. Going to war to fight for your country is nothing close to cowardice, but O’briens intentions proved that maybe it was.. He wanted a life after school where he could live and work, so he spent the whole entire summer pondering over what he should do. He considered fleeing to Canada as well. In the end though he went to war so he wouldn’t be judged and lose the respect out of his community and family. O’brien went for selfish reasons and he knew that. I think the reason he was so ashamed to tell this story was because people would see him differently, especially veterans of the Vietnam War. But looking back at his story, whatever his intentions, were he still went. He still fought bravely and earned his honor. The fact that he shared this story to everyone speaks bravery in my book.
Embarrassment was what drove O'Brien to follow his gut and escape to Canada. Selfishly, he thought he could just escape the war, and leave everything behind. Elroy was a man of few words, yet the lack of words really spoke to O'Brien. Without having to say a word of encouragement, he made O'Brien realize that he needed to be a "coward" and go to war. He believed he was a coward because he was too afraid to follow his gut and completely escape the war. I believe O'Brien never told this story before in fear of losing respect from others. He told this story now because he is no longer in fear of being judged.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien believes he is a coward for going to war because it went against his beliefs. He believed that the war in Vietnam had shady origins and was simply an imperialistic power struggle by the U.S. However, he knows he will be viewed as a coward in his home town because they all view the war as humanitarian effort to stop the evils of Communism. I also agree with him that in a sense that a human being should always abide by their own set of morals he did become a coward as he subjected his own will beneath an uninformed public's will. However, Elroy viewed him differently. In the time that O'Brien stayed with him on the Rainy River, Elroy tried not to sway his decision in one way or another by completely ignoring the obvious issue and focusing on mundane tasks and simple conversation. He also allows him to stay several nights for free without having to pay any fees, this in some ways even furthers the air of indifference towards the matter. On the last day he even takes him out fishing to show him the exact situation that he faces in an indirect way. When Elroy sees O'Brien's reaction he fully understands why he cant continue on with his original plan. To Elroy, O'Brien is not a coward.
ReplyDeleteWhen he says he was a coward for going to war he meant that he should've kept fighting against going because of everything that happens. O'Brien disagrees with all the death and killing. I couldn't agree more because I believe it wasn't our war to begin with.
ReplyDeleteIt was hard for O'Brien to talk about leaving because running away was very embarrassing for him and he knew he was so close to leaving. But he decided that it would be best to let it all out and maybe others could relate and understand.
Elroy was jus a simple man who didn't need to say much. Yet O'Brien is influenced by him because its a simple understanding that needs no words. Elroy did not force O'Brien to go into any decision he gave him the power of free will. In the end it was all about how embarrassed O'Brien felt and that he didn't want to bring shame upon his family. He also wanted to prove he was a man.
In all honesty I agree that he shouldn't have been drafted into war, but it was the right decision to stay and go to war instead of running away to Canada.
"I was a coward. I went to the war."
ReplyDeleteBy this, I believe O'Brien means that he was being cowardly for ignoring his own beliefs by going to the war. I agree with his reasoning on that statement, but I truly believe that both scenarios would have required O'Brien to be both brave AND cowardly.
O'Brien had never told anyone this story until "The Things They Carried" because, even many years later, he was still ashamed to admit to his inability to choose either way. I think he finally decided to share it because he had to let go of pent up guilt/embarrassment.
Elroy's quiet nature gave O'Brien the ultimate decision. When O'Brien left to escape judgement of his townspeople, he arrived to Elroy to receive exactly that: no judgement. Elroy did not ask O'Brien why he was there so late in the season, but somehow Elroy knew of O'Brien's internal struggle. I think that even if O'Brien had decided to tell Elroy of his plans to escape to Canada, Elroy would not have swayed O'Brien to choose either way. Although Elroy takes O'Brien into Canadian waters to materialize the situation, he does not tell O'Brien what to think or do. Elroy's "God like" presence makes O'Brien understand that he is not the brave man he thought he was.
While reading this section, I was just as conflicted as O'Brien was. I did not know what I would do in that situation. One minute I thought for sure that O'Brien would run to Canada, then the next minute I was sure he would join the war. I could relate to the struggles he was facing, which is why this section was one of my most favorite to read.
What the narrator means by this quote is that he went against his moral values to fight in the war. He surrendered to his fear of being shunned by his friends and family if he did not go to war. Going to fight in the war was an extremely hard decision for many soldiers at that time. They were going to fight in a war that they didn't even know why or what they were fighting for. I do not agree that he was a coward. He would have been a coward if he had run away to Canada. But, he fulfilled his duty to serve his country, this does not make him a coward. He has never told the story because it was embarrassing for him and a story which he was ashamed of, thinking of himself as a coward. Elroy is a character who helps O'Brien with his journey. He is not biased either way on trying to convince O'Brien to go to war or stay home. But, he helps O'Brien by giving him the opportunity to run away and not go to war by bringing him to the edge of Canadian territory. Here, Elroy stood silently as O'Brien made his decision by himself without outside influence. O'Brien had the perfect opportunity to run away to Canada but decides to go to war because he is embarrassed not to.
ReplyDeleteTwenty years after Vietnam War, O' Brian is finally able to write about a life-changing event that he has always felt shameful about.
ReplyDeleteTim had his whole future planned out, but one day he got a letter that made him chose the toughest decision his life; war or freedom? Sitting in the boat on the Rainy River, Tim realizes he is either going to be a coward for going to war or a coward for running away from his duties.
Elroy is a quiet, old man who silently helped Tim decide whether to go or not. Elroy took Tim out into the Rainy River because it was like being in the middle of a rope during tug of war. Freedom on one side and his responsibilities on the other. Soon enough masculinity and embarrassment kicked in and Tim decided it was best just to not disappoint his family and go into war.
For me personally, reading that sentence "I was a coward. I went to war." Was one of the strongest sentences in this book. It shows you just how far people are willing to go in order to not be looked down upon in the eye of society. He did not support the war and even hated it for ripping his future away, but to him, embarrassment is stronger than hatred. When he said he was a coward, he was telling the reader that he wasn't strong enough to fight the real battle, so he'd rather fight in the war.
ReplyDeleteHe never told anyone about his pre-war internal conflict and adventure because he was ashamed of himself. He didn't want people to look down on him as a coward. O'Brian wanted his family and town to be proud, and he knew the best way to achieve that was by maintaining their blissful ignorance.
Elroy was a major factor in O'Brian's decision of whether to run away to Canada or not. Elroy's presence is what made the gravity and realness of the situation really sink into O'Brian's head. If he had not been there O'Brian may have gone to Canada as irrational as when he left his job and very possibly would have regretted it all his life. Elroy's presence was a guiding hand in helping O'Brian realize the situation he had put himself in and the possible consequences of either decision. Eventually he gave into the contours of society and went, realizing that his shame would be a far worse wound than a bullet.
I disagree with O'Brien when he calls himself a coward for going to the war. I believe he would have been a coward to run away from his family and his hometown. Masculinity was a main factor in his decision to go to the war. He had to face a choice, run away and be seen as a coward to his whole home town, or head to the war, where he could possibly die and leave behind the ones he loved. I think O'Brien believed it was cowardice of himself to go to the war because he had already left his family a note saying that he could not stay and had already come up with his plan to escape the war. Once he involved Elroy in the situation, he felt obligated to follow through, even though he was having second thoughts. Elroy understood without Tim saying a word what he had in mind. Elroy clearly did not agree with his plan, but gave him the opportunity to follow through, expecting him to change his mind. He was clearly afraid of not being seen as masculine when he started to cry and Elroy turned away, understanding his feelings. He did not want to be a disgrace to his family and hometown, but even more than that, he did not want to die and leave them behind. He eventually made the decision to go to the war, seeing himself as a coward for abandoning his plan.
ReplyDeleteThe narrator means that O’Brien succumbed to the pressure of going to war. The fact that O’Brien does not want to shame his family and community pushes him towards the decision to go to war. I agree that O’Brien was a coward because he feels like he should have stood up for what he believes in and put his foot down and not go to war. O’Brien was probably embarrassed to tell this story. After all, he was a valiant soldier who fought in the Vietnam War and he did not want his wartime courage to tarnish as a result of his unwillingness to go to war. O’Brien decides to tell story now in order to complete his story and to get people to understand the truth underlying the romanticization of war throughout the years. Elroy is an old man who always knows what to say when and better yet, when to be quiet. Elroy is a sharp and intelligent man who also picks up on almost anything and Elroy even knows why O’Brien is there. Elroy acts as almost a father figure for O’Brien. Elroy forces O’Brien to make a decision and come out of his angered confusion by saying nothing. Elroy leads O’Brien to the fishing river that is right near Canada which forces O’Brien to confront Canada and make a decision on whether to flee or fight in Vietnam. O’Brien realizes that in order to spare his family and community of the shame and embarrassment of having him as a son Tim O’Brien decides to go to war. Additionally, O’Brien does not want to be personified as weak so he wanted to prove to himself and others that he was a man. While reading this section I thought that O’Brien should have put his foot down and not go to war despite this duties to his country.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator said, "I was a coward. I went to the war." he meant that he went against everything he felt was right and went to the war due to wanting to avoid persecution by his friends for not going. I don't think that he was a coward for going since it was his choice to/not to go especially when there wasn't a good reason to go in the first place. The choice of going to war was pushed by the fear of persecution by everyone he once knew and the "dishonor" of his family for not going. O'Brien didn't tell this story before since he was worried about the embarrassment that could come with the possible judgment from others about his choice. O'Brien told his story now since the people that went to Vietnam will understand the struggle and there is a wider variety of readers that will understand that nothing good comes from a war like Vietnam. Elroy is and older man that stays silent except for when he has important for O'Brien to hear. Elroy is O’Brien’s major guidance when O'Brien left his job and family to go to Canada. Elroy allows O'Brien to make his own choice with a little guidance when it was needed. O'Brien made his choice of going to the war when Elroy took him across the river and O'Brien had his "realization" about his choice. Shame, embarrassment, and masculinity all are important in O'Brien's choice to go to war since they all push him towards going and not running to Canada since he didn't want himself or his family to look bad.
ReplyDeleteThroughout this part of the book, I felt that if a draft was ever called into action again that there would be many people thinking the same as O'Brien did when he was deciding whether or not to go to war.
When O’Brien says; “I was a coward. I went to war” in the chapter “On the Rainy River” he said this letting the audience know that there were ways O’Brien had desperately thought of to be able to get out of the war draft he greatly dreaded. The best way he had was to cross the border to Canada. When the opportunity came for him to be able to jump off of Elory’s fishing boat to swim the short distance into Canada he couldn’t summon the will to do it. Fearing the reactions of disbelieve from his family, friends, and hometown. He knew that everyone would have seen him as a scared and unpatriotic man, so he gave up on his will to carry through because of his fear of being seen as a coward. I agree with his statement because he let his fear of being a disappointment get in the way of his desires, forcing him to go to war against his wishes.
ReplyDeleteHowever to Elroy; an elderly man and owner of a small motel thought differently of O’Brien. Becoming an unlikely friend to Tim during his troubling times providing him with advice and even pay for the work that had been done during his stay, instantly accepting him. Elroy never questioned why Tim had come or what his troubles were. He even tested O’Brien’s desire to escape to Canada by taking him on a fishing boat close to the Canadian border purposely to fish, giving Tim a chance to escape to Canada and avoid the war. This act of being so close to what he wanted made Tim realize where his place was. Deciding to stay and go to war fearing the shame that would follow O’Brien for the rest of his life if he had ran from the war.
I do not think that O'Brien was ever a coward in this chapter. He believed that the war was wrong and that he did not have any business fighting it. He believed that so much he ran away from the draft. While in Minnesota, O'Brien meets Elroy who silently gives him advice. O'Brien then decided he could not deal with the constant judgement of running away. He decided to go to war and risk his life which takes true courage.
ReplyDeleteI think O'Brien did not tell anyone about this story because he thought of this time of his life as his cowardice and he did not want any else to know about it. It is obvious that the decision still haunts him to this day. He had to wait many years for people to learn the truth about Vietnam before he could tell his story.
"I was a coward. I went to the war." By this statement the narrator means that he was too afraid to face what would happen at home and what others would think of him if he didn't fight in the war, so he went to the war purely because he was scared not to. Although I do agree that running away from the war would be cowardly, I also think that going to fight in the war is a very brave thing to do. O'Brien has never told this story before because he was too ashamed to admit what happened. I think he tells the story now simply because he cannot bear to keep it bottled up inside any longer, he needs to get it off his chest. Elroy is an old man who owns the lodge O'Brien hides out at while making his decision about whether to escape to Canada or accept the fact that he has been drafted. Elroy doesn't question O'Brien, but it seemed as if he already knew what was going on. O'Brien reaches his decision about whether or not to go to war one day when Elroy takes him out on the lake, close enough to shore that he could easily swim to Canada and make his escape. As we all know, a man's ego is one of the most valuable things he has. O'Brien was too afraid of what everyone would think of him if he didn't go fight in the war that that was one of the biggest factors that affected his final decision. I think that ultimately he made the right decision, even though it may have been for the wrong reasons.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien calls himself a coward for going into war at the end of "On the Rainy River" because of how he feels about his decision to leave his real plans of moving away to Canada to avoid the war. Although O’Brien calls himself a coward for not going through with his plans and staying in Canada, he has a lot of courage to enter the Vietnam War. O’Brien’s motives for entering the war were from all of his friends and family back at home who he thought would criticize him for not entering the war like he was supposed to. Although he ran from his fears and calls himself a coward, O’Brien did not run to safety. O’Brien also faced his fears by entering the war. Although Elroy did play a role in O’Brien’s decision to go home, the decision making was mainly made up by O’Brien. Elroy just continued on his day to day lifestyle and acted as if he was okay with O’Brien’s fleeing to Canada. O’Brien eventually realized that although Elroy may seem accepting, others back at home would deride him and his family if he stayed in Canada. O’Brien would not be able to face the embarrassment of his fellow citizens back home which helped him make the decision to go war. I think O’Brien portrayed the feeling of what most people would feel if they tried to flee to Canada and avoid the war. This section expresses the reality that not every soldier was completely ready to enter the dangerous war.
ReplyDeleteWhen O’Brien says “I was a coward. I went to war,” at the end of “On the Rainy River,” what he is saying is that because he was unable to conquer his fears and anxieties about the war and risk being looked down on by everyone that he knows he decides to take the easy way out and fight in Vietnam. I believe that O’Brien took what he believed was the cowardly way out not escaping to Canada. He had this perception because he didn't want to be made fun of and mocked for running away. While in fact I believe that what O’Brien did was far from cowardly. His visions of everyone watching and mocking him were just his conscious telling him that fleeing the country was the cowardly move. He only believes that it’s cowardly because he was so dead set on fleeing. What he did was cowardly in the short term but he did the brave and courageous thing by entering the armed forces.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he went to war. When he was in the boat, just 20 feet away from the Canadian border, O'Brien makes the choice to stay and fight in a war he didn't believe in. People say that he thinks of himself a coward because he decided to stay and fight in the way because of the need to go to war, but persoanlly my view on calling himself a coward was because he didn't follow what he believed in and viewed on the way which was fleeing off and jumping off the boat and swimming to Cananda. He was afraid as to what others would say about him, and how he didn't make the brave choice to stay and fight. He chose to took the ''easy way out'' and deciced to not make waves with anyone and see what people would say about him if he were to flee. O'Brien doesn't share his story because others would judge him and he feared the comments and what else there would be said about him.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien calls himself a coward for heading to war because he is trying to show how he was too afraid and embarrassed of running away from his problems. He considered himself to be a coward for giving in and deciding to enlist and taking the easy way out. I think going off to war is showing the opposite. He is showing bravery for facing his fears and not just fleeing to Canada. He meets an elderly man named Elroy who helps O’Brien in more ways than one. The man comforts him and goes about his day and does not ask questions about O’Brien which relaxes him during this tough time. Eventually, while fishing one day O’Brien makes the life altering decision to go to war. His decision is influenced by the opinions of others. Due to this he decides to enlist out of pure embarrassment of looking weak and not masculine. I think he kept this story to himself all these years because this particular story is close to him. He was to scared of what people would say about him when they found out about the real reason he entered Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien called himself a coward for going to war because he got scared of what others would say or think about him if he fled to Canada. Even though he was so close to the Canadian border, he decided to go back and fight war. In my opinion, O'Brien was not a coward but rather a hero for going to war. Tim O'Brien has never told this story before because he was ashamed of his past actions and the fact that he attempted to run away from war. He decided to tell it now because keeping it in was getting difficult. Elroy basically cared for O'Brien when he had nobody and became that one person he will never be able to thank enough. Elroy’s silence had the greatest influence on O'Brien. It was what got him thinking about the people back home and how they won’t remain silent like Elroy has if he fled to Canada. O'Brien reached his decision by looking at what was around him and eventually caving into the pressure he felt from back home.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien believed he was a coward for not taking his ticket out of the war by making a run for it into Canada. I do not believe he was a coward for going to war. The reason he had never told this story before was because he did not want people to know what he truly went through and thought about during that brief time period before making his decision. On that day he was out on the boat with Elroy, he had flashbacks and many mental pictures going on his head. He pictured being embarrassed, ridiculed, and mocked by the people he knew and grew up with, whether or not those people were even a part of his life anymore. It hurt him inside, and this was one of the ordeals that led him to make his decision of staying in the states. Elroy helped O'Brien make his decision with the time they spent together because in a weird, not-so-apparent way, he understood O'Brien. He didn't have to tell Elroy what he was struggling with, he just knew. The role of masculinity helped O'Brien make his decision as well. Although the Vietnam War was not a war that he or many other people believed in, he eventually realized that getting that draft letter meant he had to do what he had to do, no matter how much he didn't want to. While I was reading this chapter, I felt sorry for O'Brien. If I were in his shoes, I know that I would experience the same feelings of shame, nervousness, and reluctance that he did. Risking his life for something that he did not even believe in did not sound very enticing, but it helped O'Brien become braver, stronger, and wiser.
ReplyDeleteI think O’Brien thought of himself as a coward for going into war because of the fact that he had tried to escape war in the first place. He thought about running away to Canada and he wanted to escape so bad that he left for almost a week due to an internal war. I think he kept this story to himself for so long because of embarrassment. When he stayed with Elroy, it was the embarrassment of what everyone would think of him if he ran away from war that brought him home. He was ashamed that people would ridicule him, so he told himself he would go to war and maybe even die just to please everyone else. I think he told the story now because he isn’t ashamed of it; he experienced war and understood how hard it was for everyone and not just him.
ReplyDeleteElroy was an old man who was very understanding. He saw O’Brien and immediately understood his situation without even needing to ask questions. He indirectly told O’brien what he needed to do without pushing him to talk about it. He knew what O’Brien needed and was a perfect listener.
O'Brien thought of himself as a coward because he couldn't face escaping the draft and embarrassing himself to all his family so he went because of the pressure of his family and friends on him even though he knew he didn't want to. My thoughts on O'Brien is that he wasn't a coward because going to war was a brave thing to do and also if he escaped the draft he would really have some guts to leave everything behind him and start a new way of life all on his own. O'Brien never told this story to anyone because he thought that he would embarrass himself and put his family and friends to shame. He decides to tell it now because he realizes that he couldn't keep this away from everyone for all his life and not know the truth about what really happened. Elroy was an old man that O'Brien met that understood him and his decisions. O'Brien finally reached his decision about going to war when him and Elroy went out on the river to fish. O'Brien thought of the embarrassment and how much of not a man he would be if he ran away from the draft so that is what swayed O'Brien's decision in the end. While I was reading this part of the book I realized that people were in the same situation as O'Brien some did the same as him and some escaped from the war, but whatever the person decided it was a hard choice to make just like what O'Brien faced.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien feels like he is a coward because he couldn't avoid being drafted to fight in the war. He had an opportunity to escape to Canada and get away from all the war obligations but he wasn't brave enough to take the chance. I don't think he was a coward for not running away. Even though he was scared to fight he did it anyway which is more courageous than avoiding it. O'Brien hasn't told this story because he is embarrassed by it. He decides to tell it because he hopes he will feel better after writing it down. Elroy is a quiet old man who helped O'Brien during this difficult time. He gave him a place to stay, things to do, and company while O'Brien tried to figure out what do. He even took O'Brien on a boat right to the Canadian shore. He gave him the chance to run away. O'Brien decided to go to war out of the fear of shame he would bring to his family and himself. While I was reading this I felt bad for O'Brien. He was put in a no win situation. He had to face consequences either way. I was thinking that he was only a few years older than me and having deal with the fear of death or running away.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien feels like a coward because he first tried to avoid the war. He escaped to Canada,the free land, he thought he was avoiding the war. He didn't tell his family members because he was ashamed of his actions. I believe when O'Brien says " I was a coward.I went to war." he is actually talking about the days he spent in Canada. He went ot war in his mind. He knew that it was illogical to stay in Canada until the war was over but he wanted to stay alive and young. He was in college just starting his life and he was afraid the war was going to take that away. I think that O'Brien hasn't told this story simply because he is ashamed of his past actions. Elroy had the biggest effect on O'Brien. Elroy embraced life as it was, just was very mellow. When reading this I can relate to O'Brien. Hiding away from your problems truly gets you nowhere and only hurts you in the long run.
ReplyDeleteIn "The Things They Carried" Tim O`Brien expressed that he was a coward at the end of The Rainy River. While telling his story about this embarrassing act he said that on the boat that day those imaginary people were calling him names and chanting at him. That daydream was his mind trying to tell him not to go to Canada. He feels like a coward for even thinking about jumping off that boat to go to Canada and flee from the war. At the beginning he was indeed a coward for planning to flee from the war but in the end he made the right decision. If he hadn't gone back south to Minnesota,O`Brien still would have been considered a coward.He hasn't told anyone about this story because he's embarrassed but he tells it now to show the end result.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel "The Things They Carried", O'Brien battles a life altering decision that is hard to decipher from right or wrong. In the end, he decided to participate in the war, but his decision made him feel as if he was a coward for doing so. Personally, I don't agree with O'Brien thinking of himself as a coward. The thoughts and doubts that he had were very human. I don't think that one should have to fight in a war that doesn't make sense or isn't very well believed in. I think O'Brien avoided sharing his story with others because he resented it and was partially embarrassed about people thinking of him as a "coward". Elroy certainly helped O'Brien reach an ultimate decision by taking him near the shoreline of Canada, but the shame of escaping the war overtook O'Brien and led him back home. Fleeing to Canada would've threatened his title as a "man" and the acceptance of his family, friends, and the entire community.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien said, "I was a coward. I went to war," he means that he didn't want his family or the people to feel disappointed in him. He had to confront his fears of going into a war that he didn't think was right. I wouldn't agree with O'Brien here because you aren't a coward for going into the war you are doing a good thing. Many people never would of been brave enough to go to war. If anything I think that O'Brien should be proud of himself. O'Brien probably never told this story to anyone because he was embarrassed to see what other people would say to him. The reason why he probably told this story now is because he has confident with himself to take whatever people say. Elroy Influence O'Brien by giving him his opportunity to leave to go towards Canada, but O'Brien falls in and decides to go into the war. Shame played a big role in this decision because he didn't want his family and friends to think that he was a coward.
ReplyDeleteTim O'Brien views himself as a coward because he goes against his plan to go to Canada. I do not view O'Brien as a coward at all, the exact opposite in fact. I understand not wanting to go to war especially if you are going to be forced to but if your country calls upon you you have to answer the call. Plus when you flee the country you only get rid of your problems. Just think of his friends and family, they would be ridiculed for there son leaving. I believe that O'Brien should be viewed with honor and integrity, it takes a lot of mental strength to handle war. The reason O'Brien did not share his story till now is because he was ashamed that the thought of fleeing the country to avoid the war came across his mind. He became less ashamed of himself overtime thus why he shared his story.
ReplyDelete“I was a coward. I went to war”, by this I think O’Brien is trying to say that he was not brave and did not fight for what he wanted. He had a future, going to college being with his family. He did not believe in the war and he did not want to fight. But he was afraid of disappointing his family and his town. He acted cowardly by not standing up for what he believed in. When given the chance to leave and have a future without war he was not brave enough to take that opportunity. I believe that O’Brien waited to share his story because he was embarrassed to not have the courage to follow through with his dreams and future.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says he is a coward because he went to war he is saying he is a coward for going against all of his beliefs because he couldn't face the shame of abandoning his country. And I do agree with him he is a coward for going to the war something that he didn't believe in but he felt that if he stood up and said he was against the war he'd be embarrassed he was a slave to the pressure pushing down on him telling him that it's either he served the war or he was a coward. When I see it in a different light, this situation is not just a two-sided coin -you go and are a hero or you run-away and are a traitor- the way I see it he didn't want to go because the war was unfair it was talking away the life he could have had not that he was afraid of battle and I see this as a just enough reason to not fight.
ReplyDeleteI believe O'Brien never wanted to tell this story because it shows weakness and in time he realized that it was okay to show weakness. Elroy helped him in this time of question because when Elroy took him over by the shore of Canada he passed no judgement on O'Brien and would've passed none whatever his choice would be. All the things O'Brien heard coming from all the 'people' on the shore lines were his own thoughts of how they would feel and it is with those that helped him decide that the pressure for him not to be embarrassed or ashamed was too great and he decided he should fight in the war.
While reading this section I felt horrible for O'Brien. That this huge decision was pinned on him when he was just twenty-one years old. When he was just looking forward to going off to college and he knew that the war wasn't right,but the pressures for him to be the All-American boy and to serve his country with no fear and no question because if he questioned he was an automatic traitor, a man fighting against his own country. A worthless individual. When in reality he was just a boy who didn't want to fight for something he viewed as a win-less war. I felt terrified for him.
While reading the chapter, “On the Rainy River,” I was convinced that the real reason Tim O’Brien joins the war is because he doesn’t want to be left with his own thoughts. If he was to leave to Canada and live the life he wanted, he would always have regret for not accepting the draft. Even if his family and friends weren’t against him when he returned, he would always feel that they secretly were, because Tim O’Brien himself thinks he is a coward. It would always be on his mind and I think Tim O’Brien knows this, and that's why he joins the war and why he is a self proclaimed, “coward” for doing it. He knows that he will always be thinking of what if he did join the war? He was always thinking of the what ifs even when he meant Elroy. Elroy’s silence about the war drove O’Brien crazier because he secretly thinks Elroy is thinking he is a coward. Even when they’re on the boat, it would be that easy to cross the river, but Tim O’Brien doesn’t do it because he would be disappointed in himself. If he was to move to Canada he would always be thinking about what others thought to cover up what he actually thinks of himself and he didn’t want to live with all these thoughts so he joined the draft and that’s why he’s a coward because he couldn’t deal with his thoughts and his own beliefs about himself. The reason why he decided to tell the story now is because even now he still thinks about it even when he joined the war and he states this by saying that he wanted to, “relieve at least some of the pressure on my dreams” (37). He wants this out of his head, he wants to stop thinking about it and regrets that he ever felt this way about himself and that’s why he tells the story now.
ReplyDeleteI think O'Brian believes he is a coward for going to war because he's not following his own path. That he's going against his beliefs because he'd scared of what people might think of him. He's probably never told it to anyone because he feels now that he was coward for trying to leave the war instead of just serving his time like the many others who had to do it. He probably doesn't care what anyone thinks about it anymore though which would explain why he chooses now to tell the story. He may even feel proud for not leaving the U.S. and returning home to go to war. Although he may also have some regret since he went along with mainstream society instead of listening to his own heart but that can only be a learning experience for him anymore.
ReplyDeleteO'Brian says "I was a coward. I went to the war." To me this means that he was so close to freedom and living his own life, but he was afraid of what his family and everyone would think of him. I agree that this makes him a coward. If he would have left the country, he would have been free from the war. He feared if he stayed and went to the war that he would be killed, and his plans of going to Harvard would be ruined. He's never told anyone this story because he knew that they would judge him. Every other man in this war was going to go because that's what was expected of them, but O'Brian just couldn't handle it. He was ashamed of how close he came to going to Canada and leaving everything behind. Elroy helps him make his decision without even trying. He does not ask any questions about why he is there, and lets him stay several nights for free. Elroy takes O'Brian fishing near the Canadian border. He gives him a perfect opportunity to escape, but he was too embarrassed to.
ReplyDeleteThe narrator said that he was a coward because he was afraid of how other people thought of him. He really didn't believe in the war, but he put his morals aside out of shame. I do agree with what he said, keeping in mind that he would've been a coward either way. On one hand, he could have gone to Canada to escape the draft. On the other, could have gone to Vietnam so people wouldn't think he was too scared to fight.
ReplyDeleteI was annoyed with Tim's decision at first. I wanted him to go to Canada and forget about the draft, but once I thought about it, I really felt bad and was scared for him to go to Vietnam. I wished that he wouldn't have gone to war, and even though his reasoning was kind of dumb, I pitied him.
He never told anyone the story because he knew that they would look down at him for going against everything he believed in like that. I think most people would have been understanding, or maybe even proud, though. I was annoyed with his decision, but I don't think it necessarily made him a weak person.
In American society, at age 18, (in Tim O’Brien’s case, he was 21) you become an adult. And specifically, Tim O’Brien’s becomes a man. Upon becoming an adult, you receive new responsibilities and you know have to make your own decisions. Tim O’Brien feared going to war, yet he also feared ridicule, and the loss of respect from his parents. Regardless, he made the decision to drive north to Canada. He met Elroy, a quiet man who eventually helped Tim make a decision by saying nothing at all. Sitting in silence, Tim was forced to make a decision on his own. Tim O’Brien thought on whether to go or not and embarrassment from his loved ones and his community pushed him over the edge to his decision to go to war. He said, “…I couldn’t risk the embarrassment.” as he heard voices in his head yell, “Traitor! Turncoat! Pu**y!” He speaks of Elroy comparing him to God, or gods, who watch over in complete silence as people make decisions or fail to make decisions.
ReplyDeleteNo one wants to be out casted and shunned from society. Quite frankly, it’s embarrassing. It is natural in humans to blush when targeted or singled out and often it doesn’t feel good to be like that. Pure embarrassment was what swayed his decision.
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ReplyDeleteWhen Tim O'Brien says he's a coward because he was afraid what other would think, but mostly what his parents would think of him. He never dreamed of fighting in a war and potentially losing his life. He could have crossed the border and not have to worry about the war and the draft but he was too scared to do it and he went back home. He didn't tell anyone the story because he was too embarrassed because he felt he would be singled out for not wanting to fight. I wish he would have gone to Canada and not risked his life fighting a war he didn't want to be apart of.
ReplyDeleteTim O'Brien says he's a coward because he was afraid of what other people would think of him if he told his stories. He coukd have crossed the border and avoided the draft all togethet, but again he was scared. He was always scared to tell people his stories because he was afraid of embarrssing himself for not wanting to fight. He didn't want any of his friends and family to think of him as a coward so he was keeping everything to himself.
ReplyDeleteWhen O’Brien says, “I was a coward. I went to the war.” I almost think that by being a “coward” to not go over into Canada and escape the war altogether wasn’t a cowards’ move at all but yet a courageous one. He could have ran away from all of his problems and left his family and duty to his country behind, but he faced it like a man and that is bravery no matter how one puts it. Elroy plays a huge role in O’Brien’s thought process by not saying much, if anything. Elroy doesn’t ask the hard questions that O’Brien needs to answer; Elroy simply gives him a choice. Although Elroy seems to be a small character, he has a huge role. Elroy does not judge O’Brien, and most of all he does not spite him for wanting to leave the country.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading this section of the novel I almost thought as Elroy like the angel and devil on each of our shoulders, or in other words our conscience. I thought that was cool of O’Brien to put in the novel as a character outside of himself.
O'Brien calls himself a coward for going to war because he sacrificed his beliefs to avoid ridicule from neighbors and his family, he thought the only way they would be proud of him is to fight in the war. During that time were anti-communism was huge, he feared being named a traitor to the United States. That's why I agree that he is a coward because he did not follow through with his beliefs because he did not want to stand out from the crowd.
ReplyDeleteThe reason that O'Brien calls himself a coward is because he lost the war with the people around him, therefore he had to go to war. He was to scared to argue and cause conflict with the people around him that he had to face what he was drafted for. If he would have fled he would have never been the same in the eyes of thousands. In fact when he tried to flee something caught his attention and his decision was dramatically changed. When he fled North to Canada he stop and met a Man by the name of Elroy on a tip top lodge. This man impacted O'Brien more than what he thought. On the last day they both went on a canoe trip down the river. O'Brien began to see things he never would have ever imagined. Thousands of people all around him pushing him to go to war. Nothing now would hold him back. War was the only option.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien has never told that story because was embarrassed that he was going to run away. He has decided to tell it now because it was a long time ago. Elroy was an eighty years old man who was skinny and mostly bald. O’Brien reached his decision about whether to go to war or not when he was on the boat about to cross into Canada. Shame and Embarrassment played a huge role in his decision because he didn't want to risk being called names for running away. His decision had nothing to do with morality and it was completely about embarrassment.
ReplyDeleteThe author had tried to escape from the reality that he had been drafted by running off to Canada. He couldn't stand the thought of being ridiculed for not joining and so he joined even though he was afraid and didn't want to. I agree when he called himself a coward but either way you looked at it he could be considered a coward. He could have fled to Canada but he would known by others as a coward. He could have joined the war which he would see himself as a coward for conforming to public opinion. O'Brien probably never told this story because it's embarrassing to tell. But after twenty years he realized he wasn't alone and this was a reality for a lot of other people. Elroy was a older gentlemen who was quiet and respectable. Elroy kept to himself and left as little influence as he could on O'Brien's ultimate decision. It was when Elroy took O'Brien out fishing in Canadian waters to see if he would go to Canada. O'Brien decides that he couldn't be known as a coward so that is how he decided to join the war. Reading this section made me realize how much public opinion shapes how we act. We are afraid to be outsiders yet we all don't always want to do what everyone else is doing.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien was a coward because he could not bring himself to abandon his family, friends, and country. He never tells this story because it makes him look weak and it's embarrassing. Elroy was a quiet old man that owned a fishing resort that gave O'Brien a place to stay and work. Elroy also gave him the chance to leave to Canada but at that moment O'Brien saw everybody from his past and decided he would go to war.
ReplyDelete-Anthony Bomia
O'Brien tried to escape reality by running off to Canada because he didn't want to go to war, he didn't agree with the war and also didn't really know much about it. O'Brien never told this story because it made him look weak and cowardice, those who went off to war were brave and fearless. Elroy was a quiet, patient man who owned a fishing resort in which O'Brien worked and stayed at for a short time. Elroy took O'Brien out to the river and O'Brien had the option as to run to Canada and evade the war. At that defining moment O'Brien saw his family and friends and decided to stay and fight.
ReplyDeleteTim O'Brien tried to escape his draft notice by escaping to Canada. He ended up going to the Vietnam War. It means that O'Brien thinks for himself as a coward for trying to escape war. O'Brien has never told this story before because he was embarrassed for trying to escape his draft not As O'Brien became a writer after the war he needed to release to guilt of trying to escape the thing that he writes about. Elroy is a man O'Brien meets while going off to Canada. Elroy although quiet has a very large influence over O'Brien going to Canada. On there last day together they travel on water that lead to Canada. There O'Brien sees all of his loved ones lusting him off to war. O'Brien became a man when he went off to war as he faced his fear.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator says, "I was a coward. I went to the war." he means that he was a coward because he was afraid of being looked down upon by his family and hometown friends if he fled away to Canada instead of going to war. Though he was frightened by the war, and did not believe in it, he did not want his peers to think he was “too afraid” to do what his country needed him to do. To himself, he was a coward because he did not stand up and do what he thought he should have done in that situation. I do not think O’Brien has ever told this story before because he was too embarrassed of what people would think of him if they knew what his true thoughts were. The reason O’Brien decides to tell this story now is to relieve built up stress that it put upon him for holding it in for so many years. Elroy plays a key role to this decision because he put the opportunity to flee right in front of O’Brien. Though Elroy does not say a word, he puts tons of pressure on O’Brien by forcing him to make a conscious decision of doing what he wants to do vs. doing what is the right thing to do. My thoughts while reading this section of the novel was that is must have been extremely hard for O’Brien to conquer the situation he was in. O’Brien was in a lose-lose situation; no matter what he did, he was a coward. If he escaped and fled to Canada, he was a coward because it would show he was too afraid of going to war. If he went to the war, he was a coward for not doing what he really wanted to do and what he really believed in. No matter what, there was no right decision for O’Brien to make.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien states he is a coward because of making the decision to go to the war. He was afraid to go to the war, to die. O'Brien didn't have the courage to step over that line while on the fishing trip with Elroy, to leave into safety and into Canada. I agree with what he was meaning with being a coward but i understand both sides i wanted him to go to war and also Canada. This story has never been heard because of shame, he was ashamed of being so close to Canada and freedom. Elroy’s role in O’Brien’s decision was space, Elroy never asked why he was there, what he was going to do, or when he was leaving, he just gave him space and time to make up his own mind. Towards the end of O’Brien’s stay Elroy takes him to a fishing trip close to the Canada US border and lets O’Brien decide what to do and where he wants to go. O’Brien decides to stay and go to the war because of his family and the townspeople he lived with. He didn't want to be the talk of the town and his family shamed because their son was too much of a coward to go and fight for his country when called to do so. If he had left he knew he would be a huge embarrassment on his family.
ReplyDeleteI wanted O'Brien to do both while reading this chapter. I wanted him to go to Canada and be free from the war. Yet also I wanted him to go to war for his country when he was told to do so.
O'Brien says he is a coward because he didn't do what he truly felt was right. He didn't want to fight, but he went because he didn't want his family to be ashamed of him, or to be the talk of his hometown. Elroy helped in making this decision because of the kindness he showed. He never asked why O'Brien was there, Or what he wanted to do, he just showed him kindness. I think the thing that changed O'Brien was when they were on the lake and were so close to the border he could be free from war in no time. Being that close to freedom showed O'Brien he should be as far away from that as possible.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien calls himself a coward for giving in and joining the war, he does so for good reason. O'Brien is disregarding what he feels directly about the war and choosing to give in to the thoughts and opinions of his home town. I see this as weak. Bravery is not a trait usually given to people that do actions only because they feel obligated to. True bravery is done out of passion and will. I also think this foretells some of the feelings O'Brien will experience during the war.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien believes he is a coward because he can't decide if he wants to go to war or not. He doesn't want to go to war because he is afraid to die. O'Brien left for Canada and on his way he met up with Elroy. Elroy showed him true kindness and despite actually stating it, O'Brien felt that Elroy knew his decision that he had to make. Elroy was there for him and he left O'Brien to think for himself. O'Brien changed his mind when they were on the border of Canada. I think that his own ideals helped change his mind and also Elroy's presence. He was showed true kindness and on some level that helped him decide to fight for freedom.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien called himself a coward for going to war because his justification was simply that he didn't want to be looked down upon by his parents or his country. He wanted nothing more than to flee to Canada, and the only thing that stopped him was his fear of what others might think. Personally, I think that if the only thing holding you back from making a choice is what someone might think, you are a coward. We were not created to conform to the will of other people!
ReplyDeleteI thought it was cool how Elroy influence O'Brien in such a subtle way. He didn't even have to say a word about the situation, and O'Brien knew that he was trying to help. Like when Elroy takes him out on the Rainy River where Canada is just in sight, within 20 yards to be precise. Elroy is silent besides his quiet whistling, and yet it finally sinks in that O'Brien has a huge decision to make: flee to Canada or fight in the war.
O'Brien calls himself a coward because he never wanted to go to war, which I agree with. He believed the Vietnam War was a pointless war and it was a war he hated. He also did not want to die in combat. O'Brien never shared this story before because he felt like it made him look weak and inferior. He decided to show it because the weight of the story was so huge and it caused him great pain to keep it locked away to himself. Elroy had a huge influence on the decision that O'Brien had to make. Elroy demonstrated extreme caring to O'Brien by not talking to him at all and just letting him sink in the decision he had to make. Before reaching Canada, O'Brien knew that he just wanted to flee and live in Canada when he received his draft notice. Elroy helped O'Brien to make the right choice and fight in the war. Shame plays a huge role in his decision. O'Brien would have felt ashamed in himself if he did not fight for his own country. Without Elroy's presence, I believe that O'Brien would have chosen to not fight in the war.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien says, "I was a coward. I went to the war." When O'Brien says this he does not mean that going to the war was the wrong thing to do for all men and that it was a cowardly decision in general. It was deeper than that. It was a deeper internal conflict. He thought that he was a coward because he believed the war was wrong and instead of going against the popular opinion, he conformed. Elroy did not ask O'Brien questions. He did not need to. Elroy knew exactly what was going on. He had seemed like he had been through this many times before. When taking O'Brien out to the lake, Elroy knew he was forcing him to make a decision. O'Brien indeed did make his decision. O'Brien did not jump into the water, he decided to stay on the boat and eventually report for the war. O'Brien decided to avoid shame and embarrassment, and prove his masculinity, but in doing so he let himself down.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien believes he is a coward because instead of running away to Canada he gives up and goes to war anyway. In my mind I believe the opposite, I believe he finally realized his responsibility of going to war and not running away. In a twisted way he was showing courage, it just took sometime to get there. The thought of his family and even his home town downgrading him because of running away from war seemed embarrassing to him and in the end that thought of embarrassment made him grow up and admit his responsibilities. I think he never told the story before because it showed weakness and it could be shameful for him to admit to them. Elroy was a big impact on O'Brien in the way that he never questioned him or pushed any subjects, he was just there and allowed O'Brien to think everything out on his own. I believe when Elroy took O'Brien out to the lake he was trying to allow the boy to make a decision, almost like he was trying to show reality to the boys original choice. Elroy knew exactly what was going on and he knew pushing the boy wouldn't of solved anything. I actually really enjoyed reading this section because it showed his inner struggle. I couldn't imagine being put in that position, feeling trapped and being so close to just running across the border and feeling free. Although O'Brien believed he was a coward I think in the end he showed himself as a man, he ignored being called shameful and an embarrassment and instead admitted to his responsibilities like a man.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says that he is a coward for going to war he is saying that because he didn't want to go to war yet he went anyway. He calls himself a coward for giving up on his own ideas and going with what other people expected of him. He didn't want to be known as a coward who ran from the war and he didn't want his family looking down on him for being a coward. Instead of doing what he thought of as the hard choice and fleeing he went to do what others had expected of him. For doing what others wanted and not himself he calls himself a coward.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator calls himself a coward, he's saying that he chose a life that was chosen for him. He could of been brave and went to Canada and been free from the war, but he couldn't muster the internal strength he that he needed. He froze and went along with what society was forcing him to do. When I think that in reality, going to war was more brave than running from his problems. O'Brien never told this story before because it sends him shame. Shame and embarrassment of the fact that he wanted to run away. He didn't want to support his country or family. By telling this story O'Brien is releasing some of his personal shame that he felt by keeping this story to himself. He is finally coming to solace with his actions. Elroy never asked Tim any questions about his life or reason for being there. He shows amazing self control by doing so. His simplistic personality leaves Tim alone to think about what it is he wants to do about being drafted. A sort of self realization you could say. Elroy taking O'Brien to the river and letting him see the Canadian shore line he further enhances Tim's thoughts about what it is he needs to do. Tim, however, does not jump into the water, he stays in the boat. By doing this, it shows that he made a decision. To go to war and not let his parents down or be seen as a coward to his community. He went to war to simply avoid shame.
ReplyDeleteO’Brien states he is a coward by making the decision to go to war going against his principals to please society. O’Brien flees his community to do what he wanted, escape war, and follow the plan he had set to go to Canada. Tim never expected to meet Elroy and be face to face with his final step in his plan. Although, Tim never spoke to Elroy about his intentions or dilemma Elroy shows Tim what could be in his future if he chooses to not continue procrastinating his decisions. Elroy never says much to Tim but by Tim not leaping off the boat, he made his decision to return and face war on his own. O’Brien has never told this story before because he was embarrassed of not wanting to go to war and support his country instead run fearing what war has to bring. Tim decides to tell the story now to clear the air and lift the burden of what war has to bring and the pressure that it places on a person. Embarrassment is a huge factor in his decision to go to war because he does not want to be known as a coward by everyone who has ever known him, but that is where shame comes into play. O’Brien does not want to have shame for not fighting for his country and disappointing everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhat Obrien meant by he was a coward for going to war was that he always thought that war wasn’t right and that he was too good for it. But then he got drafted when he was 18. I agree with him in a way that it’s not right how we go to fight with other countries. O’Brien’s story was never told before because of how he thought that it exposed him as a coward. Reason why Obrien is telling us now is to see if it relieves some pressure off of his future and that he has been holding back all these years from not telling anyone. Elroy is silent, Elroy opens O’Brien’s mind up when they went to the lake. He is embarrasses with his choice because he going against what he believed and that come into play when he thinks he is a coward. My thoughts while reading this section is that even though he thought he was a coward he became a man facing up and doing the right thing for his country.
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