How does Rat Kiley's telling of the story add to the tension?
What does the story say about the Vietnam experience?
What was your reaction to this story?
O'Brien states: "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" (114). What is your response to this quote? How does it apply to Vietnam? Can you relate this idea to life as well? How so?
Mary Anne transforms because she feels alive in Vietnam and she also feels like a part of Vietnam. Vietnam took control of her and she took contol of Vietnam in the very same way. Eventually she only feels happy in Vietnam because she feels so alive and connected to everything, including the fighting withe " the greenies". I reacted to this story with some shock. How could such a seemingly sweet and innocent girl become so devoid of emotion and so animal like in just a few weeks? I thought about this question and settled upon the fact that Vietnam was a war zone and war changes people pretty fast.
ReplyDeleteI think what caused the transformation in Mary Anne was how wild Vietnam was. Mary Anne immediately went from high school in central Ohio to Vietnam. Compared to the U.S., Vietnam is seen as a very wild place. Being in Vietnam allowed Mary Anne to get in touch with her animalistic side, something she never knew was there.
ReplyDeleteI think that the story reflects Vietnam and that the quote sums it up well. The soldiers come over to Vietnam and they’re no more than bright-eyed kids whose futures have been taken away. Then these kids fight because that’s what they’re expected to do. While they fight, they see things that scar them for life such as a person being blown to bits and rotting corpses. After the fighting is over, the soldiers are not the bright-eyed kids they once were. They can’t go back to being a kid.
Rat Kiley’s telling of the story of the transformation of Mary Anne Bell adds tension due to his style of storytelling. Rat Kiley would pause his story to clarify a word and just drew out the story and made it last longer to really hook his audience. The story shows that when people go to Vietnam, they changed. War, nature, the entire Vietnamese experience, really just changed whoever went. In the case of Mary Anne Bell, the change was drastic, she went from a nice city girl to a woman who lived in the forest with the tongues of those she had killed wrapped around her neck like a trophy. The quote about coming to Vietnam clean and leaving dirty is really a metaphor for life in general. The “dirt” was an experience that changes someone. In the case of Vietnam getting “dirty,” dirty was the change that people went through. They became more violent, more primal, they cared about their survival, and that lead to letting people die around them and even killing when they had to. In everyday experiences the “dirt” would be changing through experiences such as loved ones dying, playing demanding sports, taking demanding classes. Anything that causes a change to someone is “dirt” therefore when people lose friends or cut things out of their lives they are getting “dirty” in relation to the quote.
ReplyDeleteRat Kiley's storytelling ability adds to the suspense and thrill of the story of Mary Anne Bell. He's a very good story teller and he displays it in this part of the book. He presents Mary Anne as a sweet, innocent, girl form plain old war-less Ohio. She slowly transformed into Vietnam, she slept, ate, and breathed Vietnam. Living with and going on missions with the Greenies only intensified that. I was surprised and not surprised at the same time by the story that Kiley told, if that makes any sense, because of how many stories there are about how Vietnam changed even the most hardened soldiers. The part that surprised me was that she was able to even get over there in the first place, it seemed so complicated and dangerous. It didn't really surprise me that she changed so drastically because of the aforementioned stories.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jacob that the "dirt" is the experience of something that changes you. Although "dirt" and "dirty" have more negative connotations it could mean anything good or bad. In this case it's talking about the dirt that the soldiers carry home from Vietnam. The quote applies really well to Vietnam, because everyone coming back over from there is carrying some sort of dirt back home through emotions, memories, and physical injuries.
Rat Kiley's storytelling style, which angered Mitchell Sanders, similarly irritated me while reading. This was by far the most intriguing story to read about in this novel for me, and despite the reoccurring feeling of horror and (upon reading the section about the necklace of human tongues ) disgust, I kept wanting to read more.
ReplyDeleteThis story illustrates the mere affect the environment can have on someone. When Mary Anne Bell first arrives in Vietnam from Ohio, she begins to fall in love with every facet of the environment of Vietnam. Slowly she became more interested in the war-aspect, although she was still hauntingly drawn to the jungle and the villages. I think O'Brien wants to illustrate that the environment you're submerged in can tap deeper into your mind and personality than we realize.
Regarding the quote, I think that every experience a person has in their lifetime can be considered "dirt". A child is born into the world as a "clean slate" and during their life, the slate becomes beautifully "dirty". Throughout their lifetime, everything they come into contact with has a significant affect on them. Every person and every encounter changes (or in this sense "stains") the person personality (or "clean slate"). I agree with Steven, that "dirt" does not necessarily mean bad. Although with bad experiences or traumatic events could be related to leaving a larger, darker "stain".
In my opinion, something big causes Mary Anne Bell's transformation. An idea alluding to the cause was that Mary Anne finally felt free. She was free from all the constricting rules of normal societal life, and could do almost anything she wanted to. However, it also bring up the powerful influence of war on the human mind and anything it knows. Mary Anne represents the powerful transformation that all soldiers undergo once they are exposed to war. This powerful transformation is the losing of innocence from war exposure. Mary Anne's refusal to go back to the United States also symbolizes something very serious. Once again, it symbolizes how once someone loses their innocence, they can never get back to the happy place they were in before war's traumatic experience. However, Mary Anne's refusal is an example of how PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) refuses to let go of a person's mind. These people are reduced to their basic instincts, such as survival of the fittest, and much more, and never really return to their true selves, even after returning from war. So, in a way, Mary Anne was a living embodiment of PTSD. She was also the poster child for the following quote: "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" (114).
ReplyDeleteThe way Rat Kiley told this story, made it become alive. He exaggerated every detail that brought this particular story to life and captured the change in one girl who was overtaken by Vietnam. This story shows that War is nothing to take lightly and it changes everyone. For Mary Anne Bell, she joined the war coming from America and started off enjoying her ‘work’ there. She refused to leave even when things had gotten extremely dangerous. Vietnam consumed her. She lived in the culture and was overtaken by her surroundings. She enjoyed being there which to me is the most disturbing thing. When she is found with a necklace made of human tongue and stating that its completely fine was horrifying and completely shocking. How could a girl like her transform so quickly into someone completely different?
ReplyDeleteThe quote “What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it’s never the same” is completely true. War experiences changes you and I know that for a fact. For some it may not have as big of an impact as others, but war is absolutely serious and absolutely affects people who are a part of it. Especially the Vietnam War which was a brutal and bloody and overall ruthless war. Coming home from something so intense like that would definitely change you. I don’t think anyone could ever be the same.
Rat Kiley's storytelling style adds suspense to the story and makes it become more exciting. Rat Kiley would exaggerate some things and draw out others to make the story last longer and hook the audience. One main point of the story was to show how the war changes people. Mary Anne Bell is a very good example of how people change, because for her the change was drastic. She went from Ohio straight to the war, along with being "clean" and innocent to "dirty" and more of a woman. This is where the quote about coming to Vietnam clean and leaving dirty comes in. Every and any experience can be labeled as "dirt" in a persons life. I agree with Steven that dirt is not always a bad thing in life. Being in the war definitely changed Mary Anne Bell and caused her to leave with dirt on her slate. Everyone from the war came back this way, whether the dirt was a physical injury, mentally, or emotionally; Mary was just one of the best examples of it.
ReplyDeleteRat Kiley had a unique way of telling the story. He added in details and gave his opinion while telling the story. This story proves that war changes people. Everyone in the war experienced change, although probably not as big of a change as Mary Anne Bell. She came to Vietnam a sweet and innocent girl, just going to visit her boyfriend. Once she arrived in Vietnam, the war took over her mind. She became consumed in every aspect of the war, including her attitude and even her looks. This story didn't really surprise me, but it did intrigue me. I found it interesting that something similar could actually happen, and may have during the war. The war changes people, some for good, others not so much. The quote, "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" (114). really spoke to me. Not only does it relate to Vietnam because war changes people, but it can also relate to life today. No matter what experience you go through, it will change you, and you will never be exactly the same.
ReplyDeleteGiven the nature of The Things They Carried (being that it is a work of fiction), I think Mary Anne Bell stands for far more than one individual person. In regards to O'Brien's quote, this becomes far more obvious. Her story is not that of a girl being swallowed by Vietnam; instead, it goes to show what happens to everyone. Vietnam is no place for the innocent, and to make up for that fact one is molded accordingly into the grit and grime.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne is a worst-case scenario, because she becomes Vietnam without merely dying. However, so does everyone else. It has been proven again and again that you lose part of yourself to war, whether the sudden pit is from the destruction of innocence to childhood to something more drastic, it does not matter. She enters as a bright, young schoolgirl and changes to be anything but. Because of this entry into her life, watching her pieces chip away until we are left with someone completely alien, it makes the other men easier to stomach. By our standards, many of them come off as rude and harsh, if not monstrous. Thanks to Mary Anne, we can be empathetic to those touched by the war.
I think Vietnam causes Mary Anne's transformation. She was from Ohio, an area not so wild and dangerous as Vietnam was and the vibe that I got of Mary Anne was more of a thrill seeker. She wanted to know every little bit and detail of what the war was about; from wanting to see the surrounding villages to how to clean a gun. Mary Anne was a fast learner and to her advantages was able to break out of her shell and become a part of Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteRat Kiley added tension to the story by telling it. The way that he would add his thoughts and very minor details to it just took away the whole purpose of the story being short. This irritated Mitchell Sanders and honestly irritated me too. I just couldn't handle reading every little detail that he added, most of them being very unnecessary. I could understand 110% why it had added tension. But I did really enjoy this story! I was able to connect on a lot of different parts and it was very interesting and intriguing to read.
My response to the quote on page 114 stating,"What happened to her... was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same", would be that it doesn't happen to everyone, it only happens if they let it. For example, Mary Anne. She never left war in the story, but it did become a part of her and she was never mean towards other people or had a negative perspective of other things. If anything, her perspective became one of nature and it was more positive. On the other hand, when Rat Kiley physically abused the baby buffalo and he wrote his friend's sister a letter when his friend had passed away and then called her a name, he let the war get the better of himself. But with adding my own personal experience, (my cousin's actually, but for me to watch his change as my experience) my cousin, who I call my "Uncle Eddie", had gone through a traumatic situation and at first came back home scared and frightened for what might happen in his future at war. He obviously had PTSD, but in a short amount of time was able to go back to himself and overcome his fears and have more of a positive perspective. I wouldn't say that the war made him "dirty", but it did make him "cleaner"? (If that makes any sense?) The war had given him a better outlook on life and he is ever more grateful for serving his country and still being here today.
And last but not least, I can certainly relate to this quote. Even though this case is about Vietnam, it would be like high school for me. (Yes I am comparing war to school, I am so sorry!) I see it as this, there's two different situations. There's my friends and then there's me. Before high school everyone was "clean"; not into drugs or drinking and not having kids. Once freshman year comes along, it's like the new trend? Why? Why would drugs and alcohol be okay? Why have kids when your still a kid? I guess it was to be cool or they needed an "escape"; whatever the excuse was, it seemed to be the same thing over and over again and to me it was an act of stupidity. So long story short, my friends became a part of the "new trend" and I'm the lone body; high school was able to "dirty" my friends and I was the one to stay "clean".
May Anne Bell transform in a dramatic way because Vietnam was nothing like home. Like most soldiers, she learned to adapt and grow with the war. Vietnam itself was the reason she changed. Change and new outlooks always occurred during any war. Especially one as different as Vietnam had been. Also the way Rat told the story had many pauses so at its most dramatic parts you had to wait. He also exaggerated a few things.
ReplyDeleteThe story really emphasized the Vietnam experience. It described how when you're in a new place with new surroundings its almost instinctive to adapt and change with the environment. In Vietnam it showed that you had to become one with the environment and the war itself could change you in a way that'll never be irreversible. That's why my reaction was complete shock. My life has stayed pretty much the same and I never had to go through a change and adapt to a surrounding as dramatic as Vietnam. Its also why I really understand the quote. Because when you went over you were still pureish and not exactly affiliated with war, death, and fear. When a soldier went over to Vietnam it showed all and each person experienced it.
This story shows what war does to people. You go to war one person and when you come back, if you do, you are a completely different. Its as though the war swallows you up and changes you mentally if not physically. In this particular story Mary Anne Bell is a normal, sweet, young girl. However, after see what war is like and after seeing death up close she changes. Its like she cant handle the vast differences between what she has experienced in life up until that point and the realities of war. In order for this to make sense to her she changes how she thinks. All of a sudden, death and killing is acceptable and she likes the thrill of war. This shows that you lose a part of yourself in war. Its the destruction of your innocent mind as people get used to watching others kill and die. By the time she starts to change the men don't even know who she is anymore. Its like a whole new person. I was really surprised by her drastic change. It shows me that maybe death isn't the worst thing that can happen in war. Maybe the worst thing is that you lose who you were and you'll never get that back.
ReplyDeleteThe way Mary Anne changed is, I believe, an exaggeration to show how Vietnam swallows the innocent and spits them out changed completely. Vietnam took a sweet girl such as Mary Anne Bell and turned her into part of it. By Rat Kiley telling the story, it makes it real because it's as if he was actually there to experience the changes. I couldn't believe the story as it was told. I kept thinking, there's no way she was able to stow away on a supply helicopter to live as the men do to become better than them to join the "greenies". Once I started believing that that may have happened I asked, how was she able to join them and be a part of them and Vietnam without a superior finding out that she was there in the first place. I guess it just goes to show that once a person is corrupted or contorted in such a way than no matter what happens, no matter how hard you try, there is no way things will be able to go back to the way they were before. Life is just like that. Daily things happen that change the way they are perceived and they will never be looked at in the same innocent manner as they might have been before.
ReplyDeleteThe cause of Mary Anne Bell's transformation is the human nature to adapt to the current circumstances. When she was in Ohio, Mary Bell was a normal girl in a normal high school in a normal town. She was the stereotypical 70s high school student. When she came to Vietnam, she was thrown into a wild and chaotic world. She adapted by becoming wild and chaotic herself. Rat Kiley added tension to the story because he actually knew her. He knew firsthand what all of the emotions were when events in the story happened. The story shows how much Vietnam could change anyone and anything.
ReplyDeleteIn response to O'Brien's quote, O'Brien is showing the reader that the men that came over to Vietnam where clean and new to the world seeing as how many soldiers in Vietnam where between 18-21 years old. When they came back from Vietnam, they were dirty with experiences that were not meant for men that young. They prematurely became men, men with memories that will smudge their brains forever. I relate to this because I went from going to a private school with around twenty-five kids a class to a public elementary with about seventy kids a class. I had to adapt from a small place that I knew everyone to a big and wild place with nearly three times as many people. It was a truly terrifying and exhilarating time for me which Mary Anne Bell felt when she went over to Vietnam.
The change that Mary Anne Bell experienced seemed to be a metaphoric representation on how the war changed every single person that was involved with it. While it may happen to the men who were stationed there much more gradually than it hit her, there was a certain instinctual part of their spirit raised in Vietnam and they often have difficulties expressing it to people who haven't experienced the horrors that they have. This is demonstrated in other parts of the book, such as the scene with O'Brien and his daughter when they were visiting where Kiowa died and the stories of Norman Bowker after the war. However, Mary Anne goes a step further, by becoming so in touch with the culture that she couldn't even express herself to the men that were also there with her. Honestly this story slightly disturbs me as I can see how a human being changes from having a life that I can completely relate to, to something that I couldn't even begin to understand. In some ways this almost feels like a ghost story as she just disappears and becomes one with the nature of Vietnam. However, isn't this similar to what happens to all of them. Instead of how her physical self got lost in the insanity that was Vietnam, the rest of the men lost there spirits.
ReplyDeleteIn "Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong", Mary Anne Bell was transformed by the Vietnam culture and war. Ray Killey is telling the story to Tim and since Rat had a problem with over exaggeration; Tim didn't believe half of the story.
ReplyDeleteVietnam changed Mary Anne Bell. She flew from Ohio to Vietnam during war to visit her boyfriend. That make me think of her as naive and ingenuous. Throughout her visit, Mary Anne became more wild, while something major changed in her that made her grow up a bit. I was surprised by the fact that she went to Vietnam during a war, but I expected Mary Anne would change. When gone to war, no one comes back the same. Exactly like the quote states, you experience war with challenges, and leave war with many physical and mental scars; leaving you a totally different person.
The sense of freedom and the culture of Vietnam is what caused Mary Anne Bell's transformation. She went straight from high school and onto Vietnam during the war. While Mary was visiting her boyfriend, the culture caused her to become more of the rambunctious type and in a way forced her to grow up.
ReplyDeleteRay Killey elongated and went into far detail to add tension to the story. He would take time to make sure his audience (Tim) understood fully what he was trying to tell. During the the telling of the story, Ray Killey had over exaggerated to the point where Tim hardly believed him.
While reading this story, I felt I couldn't relate to Mary Anne Bell because I wouldn't have the nerve to go to Vietnam during a war. On the contrary, I could relate to Tim in the aspect of hardly believing in the story. I felt as though this was one of the more interesting stories of them all; packed with horror and danger.
Mary Ann Bell feels like she has been freed when she comes to Vietnam. She feels as though she has broken social restraints by being a woman involve in the war. The culture of Vietnam makes her feel like this is where she belongs. When Mary Ann makes it to Vietnam, she feels as though she is where she belongs and is making a difference. I thought this was the most interesting story in the novel by far. I personally could not relate to this story simply because I could never have the courage to do the things Mary Ann did.
ReplyDeleteRat Kiley's telling of the story was far exaggerated to add intensity and interest to the story. He overtold the story so much that his audience started to not believe this story.
I take this quote as meaning that the soldiers would come over to Vietnam expecting to just defend their country, and did not expect to have to kill other men and watch their own men who had become a sort of family die. One could come to Vietnam with a clean conscience, but after seeing and doing the things required of them during the war, they could never forget it. Throughout the novel, it is mentioned several times that they could not get the images and horror of the Vietnam War out of their heads for as long as they lived. I believe that is the sole meaning of this quote.
As O'Brien expresses, "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" (114). Personally I find this one of the most truthful lines in the entire novel. The United States is a privileged country in my eyes. Yes, we have those whom live in poverty, those struggling with disease, those struggling to support a family, but these realities are far better than those in a war. Compared to the conditions in Vietnam, everyone did come over clean in a sense, but more so unprepared, and privileged. The situations in war I can not pretend to even remotely understand, but what I do understand is it is a completely different world. Making life or death decisions, watching others die, putting your life after those of your brothers; these are not situations we deal with on a regular basis. In response, we will change because of this. Not that the change is bad, but rather necessary. The mindset changes to focus on more dire issues, some are traumatized, others confused, but all different as a result of the events seen.
ReplyDeleteThe truth behind this line is still true today. I believe in any unfamiliar situation, we are forced to change. Take simply a first job for example, one must learn a new sense of responsibility in order to continue to prosper in said job. The situation is not the only thing that changes us, people surrounding you do as well. Now I know people say they would never change for anybody, but i find this untrue, we all change without knowing. Others influence us naturally, one of the more prominent things I find to pertain to my peers would be peer pressure. O'Brien's words are still relevant today, whether talking about a Vietnam War, or something as simple as making the right decision at a party. People change, it is an inevitable part of being human.
The transformation of Mary Anne Bell occurs because she was introduced to Vietnam and she became obsessed with everything that dealt with Vietnam. She really became obsessed after she went out with the Greenies on their missions. When Rat Kiley told the story he stopped several times to create a type of dramatic effect. Rat Kiley's story shows that everyone in Vietnam lost a part of themselves to the war since it engulfed them. I am not too surprised that the soldiers changed from before the war and after the war since even the most stone-cold soldier transformed.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien's quote is so true since it can apply to anything like when people change when conditions change in their life. The quote applies to Vietnam since the soldiers went over completely normal and the ones that came back were changed from seeing death everywhere and the constant struggles that needed to be overcome. As stated above, relating this quote to everyday life is easy because as people go through experiences in life, they change from before they had the experiences.
The atmosphere of war and tragedy causes the transformation in Mary Anne Bell as gore and violence becomes the norm and she feels that war, violence, and killing is “not bad.” Rat Kiley’s telling of the story makes it more intense because typically when he tells a story he over exaggerates and according to the other soldiers he usually changes his tone during a story to fit the tone. However, this time Rat Kiley tells the story in a slow and solemn voice. His story says that even the most innocent or sheltered people can dramatically change due to the wartime carnage. I was shocked when I heard the story of a sweet and young Mary Anne who turns into a sadistic and blood-thirsty killer. This quote reveals how some events or things can cause such strong feelings in a person that the person will never be the same. Even in Maya Angelou’s I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, after Maya is raped she is never the same. She is clean beforehand but once she is raped she then becomes dirty and is never the same. This applies to Vietnam especially with Tim O’Brien and the first man he kills he never felt the same, the traumatic experience is simply too much. Even other men in Vietnam have other experiences some more horrific than others leaving every man who fought in Vietnam changed forever. In life rape or molestation as cited above in Maya Angelou’s instance can certainly be applied to real life as a young Maya is changed forever after her abuse from Mr. Freeman.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell is extremely interested and intrigued with Vietnam and its new, foreign culture. She quickly embraces the Vietnamese ways and becomes part of Vietnam and its culture. Rat Kileys telling of this story adds tension because he was in love with Mary Anne Bell. He brought her over to Vietnam so she could be with him. They had even arranged their marriage while overseas. But as she quickly embraced the new culture, their relationship quickly began to melt away as well, breaking Kiley's heart. This story shows how the foreign Americans in Vietnam either embraced the new culture or ignored it, and the story showed both sides of this. I found this story very interesting, how most soldiers ignored this new culture, but some embraced it. This story gives the reader a brief insight on what Vietnamese culture is like and how it is so different from ours, which I found quite interesting. I interpreted this quote as saying that once you come over to Vietnam, and experience war first hand, whether killing people or fixing them up, it changes you for the rest of your life. This applies to Vietnam because many soldiers who went and have returned experience serious PTSD and don't talk about their war experiences at all.
ReplyDeleteI think what causes the transformation in Mary Anne Bell is being exposed to the life that her boyfriend and the rest of the men were living. Kat Riley's telling of the story adds to the tension because he is notorious for stretching the truth and "elaborating" the stories that he tells. Although he is a good storyteller, he isn't known for his credibility. This story says that the Vietnam experience changes you. You aren't going to be the same person when you go home as when you first enter the war. You lose part of yourself, however small it may seem. You lose some of your innocence and naive way of thinking, because you may experience things you wish you hadn't, or see things that you wish you could un-see. War makes some people colder, it makes some people wiser. War can build you up, but war can also tear you apart. War changes people, and that is what this war story is all about. I don't think that there is anything in life that you can go through that is comparable to fighting through a war, because there is nothing like it.
ReplyDeleteThe transformation of Mary Anne Bell is caused by the sudden exposure to the Vietnam life. The sudden change from the constraints of society to the harsh and free environment of the wilderness intrigues and envelopes her. Even if she has always had an interest in foreign culture and weaponry she could never further her studies in them due to the roles placed upon her back home. In Vietnam, however, she was able to embrace them and this sudden expose to freedom is what causes her transformation. Kat Riley telling the adds a generous amount of entertainment to the story of Mary Anne Bell. His sweet tooth for drama and tension means that he stretches the details of the story to draw the listeners in further. This is especially true since Kat Riley is a notorious liar when telling stories, making the listeners/readers constantly ponder what is true and what is for entertainment value.
ReplyDeleteThis story tells the reader that Vietnam, at least during the war, is a place of filth. It takes those who come in naive and ignorant and changes them for better or for worse. You can see this exemplified in the quote above as well. IT would be unfair though to say that the quote is biased only towards the war. It can also be applied to many other scenarios such as growing up or other scenarios that involve exposure to new things.
I believe that the transformation in Mary Anne Bell was originally caused by her sense of adventure. Mary Anne was said to have pestered Mark Fossie to take her to see the native’s village, there she fell in love with Vietnam and became more interested in seeing more. With the Green Beret’s being at the base it gave Mary Anne the opportunity to do the exploring that she longed for. I think this story is very believable because many crazy things happened in “Nam.” It was not uncommon for someone to mentally change during their time spent over in the jungles of Vietnam.The only part of the story that I’m not fully sure that I believe is when Mary Anne was allowed to get into the military transport shipments to be flown into a war as a normal civilian, let alone a girl, in those times. Everything except for her arrival though, is perfectly plausible in my mind.
ReplyDeleteIn "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong" the bazar culture and up-close experiences of the Vietnam War changed Mary Anne Bell. Although Mary Anne was a curious woman, the wild jungles in Vietnam which are quite different than America can change any person. Mary Anne loved to explore the wilderness and she constantly asked questions to get to know more about the land. Eventually, most of the soldiers realized Mary Anne became "just one of the guys”. Rat Kiley's telling of the story added to the tension because it made the reader question what was going to happen next and why he was taking the story so slowly. My reaction to the story was a result of not being surprised. Anyone who undergoes such a traumatic experience, especially the Vietnam War, would have to lose some of their innocence and change. The quote from above is expressed by how much Mary Anne changed when she came to Vietnam. Almost all soldiers come back home from war with at least a small change in them. Many soldiers witness horrifying fatalities and plenty of other gruesome scenes. This quote can also relate to day to day life because no matter what we all experience some form of hardship in our life that changes us in some way. For some it may make them stronger and for others it may break them down. Each experience in life changes us and gives us a better understanding of the world around us, for the better or worse.
ReplyDeleteWhat causes the transformation in Mary Ann Bell was excitement and how different Vietnam was from everything she had ever knew. Vietnam happened to be the place for her where she fit in well, where she had known and felt herself and most comfortable in. Her character was almost best suited for the action in the war. She loved the feelings she got from being a part of it all. A part of the people, the land, the war, the soldiers and everything inbetween. She could do everything she never thought she could which is where she found her excitement. And the way Rat Kiley told the story made it more complicated than it had to be. He started out with being less than enthusiastic about the story telling to over-exaggeration which emphasized the transition of Mary Ann. Any story that was told in the book reflected either the sameness of the boring aspects of the war or the extreme flips. My reaction to the story was that I was not surprised. People change, especially in such exotic environments where nothing is the same at all. I'm sure I'd be the same way if I was put into her shoes. The quote makes sense to me because I understand how Vietnam and any other war can change someone. Everyone deals with change at some point in life and how you cope with it is a personal thing, something that no one can change. Change can be scary, exciting, upsetting and so much more. Depending on the kind of change being dealt with many things can differ in the situation.
ReplyDeleteThe transformation in Mary Anne Bell occurs once she is introduced to the atmosphere of the war. She comes to visit her boyfriend Fossie and loses her innocence due to seeing things no 18 year old should have to ever see. She changes in many ways and turns into a completely different person than when she arrived. While telling this war story about Mary, Rat adds a different aspect to it because he was in love with Marry Anne Belll. Rat also liked to pause and add his opinion while telling the story to others, which added many new elements. This particular story that Rat Kiley tells says a lot about Vietnam. It shows that enduring something like war all the time and living in those conditions can change someone’s life forever. In the quote “What happened to her…was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it’s never the same.” It explains that one thing can have a negative long lasting impact on you. This can relate to anyone’s life even if you haven’t been to war. Any traumatic experience someone has during their time on Earth, for example a divorce or a death in a family, can cause someone to lose themselves and act completely different.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell's transformation was caused by her arrival in Vietnam and its beautiful environment and culture that the country held. After weeks of witnessing tragedies and what Vietnam really was she realizes that war is what she has been missing from her life back home. While Rat Kiley is telling the story of "Sweethart of the Song Tra Bong" he seems to exaggerate most of the story and put his own twists on it but, he also uses suspense to add tension like when he pauses through the story. My reaction to Vietnam after the story is that Vietnam was a life changing experience for some. The quote to me is a very true thing that happened in Vietnam. People were stripped of their future when the draft called for them. People were scared and hopeless to what they might do when they were their but the soldiers had learned to endure it and adapt to the environment no matter how they felt about it. I think that this quote also can apply to when you are first left on your own when your parents stop paying for you and you are meant to fend for yourself. This teaches people to survive through hardships as well but certainly not as much as what people endured in Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell was transformed by the gruesomeness of war and the new and wild environment of Vietnam. She went from an innocent 18 year old girl to someone who felt no fear or guilt. She came over just to see her boyfriend, but shortly after being in Vietnam she was helping stitch up mangled soldiers, she cut her hair short, and lost her girlish, "bubbly" personality. She then began going on night watches with the Greenies and then disappeared for weeks. It wasn't until Mark heard her singing that he was able to find her. She was with the Greenies, she wore a necklace made of human tongues, and her eyes were flat. She came there with girlish hopes to marry Mark and move along Lake Erie and have three children but after a few weeks she became cold and heartless. She had seen things that caused her to lose her innocence and there was no going back to the person she used to be.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell’s transformation in “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong” is due to her exposure to war life. She gets interested in how different things are here in Vietnam than they were back home in Cleveland. Rat Kiley tells this story in a way that illuminates all the dramatic changes in Mary Anne and stretches out the story to add tension and suspense to his storytelling. The way he does this makes the listeners feel the same way Rat Kiley does when he recalls this story. Kiley’s story says many things about the Vietnam experience, the main thing being that it can be life changing. One can see this when looking at Mary Anne. She was a normal teenager fresh out of high school, but after entering Vietnam, she became “lost inside herself” and found no point in returning back home. After hearing this story, I realized how real and life changing Vietnam was to people. It shows that Vietnam can have a life-long impact on people that were once normal and innocent. This quote shows that throughout life, one will experience change, and it is up to that person how they will take that change, either for the better or for the worse.
ReplyDeleteThe transformation in Mary Ann is one that almost all soldiers in Vietnam wen through. Yet for her, the rapid change in her lifestyle caused the transformation to leave an even larger and longer lasting effect. She went from living the sweet and peaceful life of an average American teenager to the dealing with the immense amount of risks involved with living in a combat zone. Rat Kiley tells the story from the point of view of someone whose friend is dealing with some of the most intense emotional pain possible. He is watching his friend slowly lose the most important thing in the world to him, all while living in the same hell that she is. The story shows that the things those men experienced left a part of them destroyed, or left in Vietnam. A sense of innocence and ignorance that they will never get back and will haunt them forever. They lost a portion of themselves that is what sometimes keeps them sane and alive. The emotional strain left from their experiences in Vietnam carried with them for the remainder of their lives and is something that can never be reborn. While a traumatic experience in someone's life can have the same effect, nothing can compare to the struggles of living in an active combat zone where your life is on the line every minute of the day.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne experiences a drastic change as do all of the soldiers drafted.Mary Anne's change though was much quicker and more dramatic than the others. Mary Anne came from the average American lifestyle. She was used to everything being alright and safe back home. When coming to Vietnam, everything is different. Mary Anne is in the line of danger constantly. Mary Anne's transformation is due to the fact that she saw a lot of brutal things that she wasn't used to. When Rat Kiley tells the story, you can feel the emotion connected to young,naive girl. Kiley slowly lost the light he saw in the young girl. This story shows you just how much a war can change a person. The war seems to steal the light in one's eyes and makes them mature quickly. The quote O'Brien uses tells you this. The war took something from everyone,whether it be emotional or physical, they were not the same person when they returned.
ReplyDeleteDuring the chapter "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong", Mary Anne went through the transformation of being a typical teenager to being shoved into the military lifestyle, which could be a shock to an innocent girls system. Although she was very curious about Vietnam, she most likely wasn't expecting to see the things she was exposed to. With the story being told from Kiley's point of view. It really emphasized the dramatics and little details of the story. The story was so detail oriented because Rat was in love with Mary Anne so he told the story with passion and lust. Out of any of the war stories told, it really shows that no day is the same during war. One day could be boring and uneventful and the next day there could be firefights and women to pay attention to. The soldiers never know what's next. My reaction to the story almost gave me a reality check. Until a story like that is explained in depth, I don't think we realize how taxing a war is on someone mentally, physically, and emotionally.
ReplyDeleteIn "Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong", Mary Anne is flown in to Vietnam, thousands of miles from her peaceful and innocent life. This instant exposure to combat and the lives of soldiers quickly changed her, for the worst. Rat Kiley's view of Mary Anne's story added tension because of his own emotional trauma of watching the girl he had loved since his elementary days turn into an almost unrecognizable killer, especially with her necklace of human tongues around her neck. Her story shows that all the soldiers that experienced Vietnam lost something there. Whether it was their innocence, or their mind, every person was changed. I was very shocked by the story because of it's quick escalation. Mary Anne seemed to fit in well, tending to hurt soldiers, cooking, learning the Vietnamese language, and even cutting her hair short. However, she became too involved, and she becomes insanely sadistic, which is completely opposite of the person she was when she first stepped off the helicopter. The quote proves that people everywhere, not just in the Vietnam War, lose their innocence, and it can never be regained after a traumatic or life-changing experience.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne is flown into Vietnam from Cleveland, Ohio. Vietnam was completely new and strange for her because she was not use to the violence and being in a new land outside of the U.S. She starts to become distant from the world she was used to. Rat Kiley tells the story of Marry Anne in a slow, stretched out tone. It makes the men in the platoon and the reader be in suspense throughout the story. My reaction to the story was that if men came home and couldn't adjust, then a person with no knowledge of the country will most definitely be lost. My response to the quote above is if you go through such a dramatic change in your life, you will never be the same again. A person, who got home from overseas fighting, will sometimes have PTSD. The people going off into Iraq and Afghanistan will come back completely different, because they have lived a different life. If something traumatic has happened, then they will have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
ReplyDeleteWhat caused the transformation of Mary Anne is the war itself. All of the soldiers that came into the war have also changed in a significant way. Mary Anne changed within a few days of being in Vietnam. She learned to become a solider. She got to be too involved with being in Vietnam. When Rat Kiley tells the story of her you can see how it has effected him in a emotional way. He can't believe what happened to her. The story tells that everybody in the war has changed in a way. I was very shocked by how the story took off. I really didn't expect her to end up like that. I think that the quote fits perfectly with the Vietnam war because the soldiers have seen stuff that they shouldn't of seen. This quote could fit into any war that has happened.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne was flown from the U.S to the war torn country of Vietnam. Seeing the result and effects of combat something in her mind snapped. The way Rat Kiley tells the story creates lots of suspense and drama which consumes the minds of the men of the platoon. This story shows that it takes a very strong state of mind to keep your sanity in war. War brings the worst out of men and some men can not go back to normal ever. Just like Matthew Albery said above "This quote could fit into any war..." and that is entirely true. PTSD is a real issue and fighting in the middle of a jungle does not help whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell was a sweet young girl from Ohio thrown into the chaotic world of Vietnam. Her surroundings changed drastically and she adapted. Mary Anne was curious and wanted to explore. She felt alive, powerful, and apart of the land in Vietnam. Rat Kiley was not known to tell very truthful stories but this in this story about Mary Anne you learn that Vietnam changes people. When going to war your either gain or lose part of yourself in the action and environment. Either way people are never the same coming out of war. In life different experiences change people and I think this is what this war story is all about. People grow and change throughout life, no matter what the situation is.
ReplyDeleteThe slow change in Mary Anne Bell is caused by all of the horrific things she has to see while over in Vietnam. She first starts to show change when she helps heal the wounded and is introduced to all of the gore that comes with the war. She began to grow with her surroundings and started to get more and more withdrawn and becomes a cold shell that does what she needs to do. However she still puts up the front of the person she came over as and the first time they truly notice how far she has slipped is when they see her in the green berets tent wearing her normal clothes with the necklace of tongues and they see how indifferent she has become with how shallow her eyes are.
ReplyDeleteRat Kiley's telling of the story was infuriating because he'd stop and clarify stuff that didn't need to be clarified when all everyone wanted to do was hear how the story ends. Then when he doesn't even know how the story ends first-hand it just leaves all that build-up for something he heard from someone else and not something the audience can fully trust.
This story does show how war can change people. Even the bubbliest of personalities can be changed into an indifferent, cold, and empty one. I felt as though the story showed her loss of humanity and she became an animal feeding of the land and it's energies. The quote just sums up the story of Mary Anne's transformation from her innocent self to the indifferent soldier she ran away as.
O'Brien tells us basically that you go into the war innocent and start to change into a fighter. A fighter in different ways like fighting to survive the war and just someone who goes out to fight for the feeling. Mary Anne came over as this sweet innocent girl but the feeling of being in Vietnam during war made her feel alive. She loved how she felt there. Vietnam slowly began to take control of her and so she returned the favor and took control of it. She felt so alive going on night raids with the "greenies". Rat Kilby made the story more tense because he'd stop to make sure people understood which left some buildup for the others when he would stop. The pauses in the story kept coming which angered the other soldiers who just wanted to hear the rest of the story. The only problem with the story is that he didn't know first-hand how it ended which just left more tension for the other because they have no clue how it might end or if the ending they know is even real. The main point of the story is that a war can change you no matter who you are. War can consume you and make you someone you're not like Mary Anne Bell had changed or how the author O'brien had changed himself later on with Bobby Jorgenson
ReplyDeleteIn the chapter, " The Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong", Mary Ann Bell is transformed from being a sweet-hearted child to just another solider stuck in the Vietnam War. She completes this change by submersing herself within the Vietnam culture and U.S. soldiers changing her mind and opinions on Vietnam. Rat Kiley makes the story seem as if once upon a time she had been so innocent, but then just by stepping foot on Vietnam she had become corrupted by every single little thing. The story of Mary Anne Bell shows that Vietnam was a life changing place, it really opened the eyes of many. Vietnam showed many people the reality of the War and the world itself. In my opinion I think it was Rat Kileys fault that he brought his Girlfriend over to such a corrupt place, but I do feel bad that someone that innocent had to see something this real even though every other Amerian soldier had to see the same thing.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien's quote was a very powerful quote, it basically explained every persons thought process during the war, it explains Norman Bowker's death, and it explains every soldiers mind after they were shipped home. In all the dirt that most soldiers had brought back to the U.S. were bad memories and scars that could never be removed from their lives.
At first Mary Anne Bell came to Vietnam to be with Mark Fossie. It was very rare to send over a girlfriend, so Mary Anne Bell was by herself most the time. She didn't have friends to talk to all day and she couldn't just sit around so really she was forced to change. Working in the hospital was the first step, and while she learned more about the war, she was interested in being a part of the action. So she reacted by sneaking out with others on their missions. Then she got addicted to the rush of hunting. Adding to the tension of the story is the fact that she was so innocent and sweet and how would she ever get caught up in a war? Also that she got involved with the greenies who are known to be the craziest of all the soldiers. Mary Anne Bell's story shows that when someone gets caught up in a war, they don't come back from it. It was like a drug to her, even if she was sent home, she would crave the feeling again. My reaction to the story was that I was surprised at the ending result but not at the fact that she got involved in the war because she couldn't just sit there and do nothing. Although, I was pretty surprised when she had the, "necklace of human tongues," (105) but I also understand that after a while in the war, it became a game to her, and the tongues was just the prize. Also, the way she was dressed when Mark Fossie found her, how she was wearing, "her pink sweater and a white blouse and a simple cotton skirt," (105) represents what some of the other comments were saying when the war can turn even the most innocent person into something completely different.
ReplyDeleteMary Ann Bell transformed from a typical USA girl into a wild jungle girl because of the influence of being in a new world Vietnam. Rat Kiley is one of my favorite characters throughout this story, and it sinks how he died (no pun intended). But how he tells the story he adds a lot of unneeded information to drag out the story and also it is awful where he stops telling the story because that is all he knows. It was a terrible cliffhanger for his listeners but at least he still continued but did state it was third hand information. Vietnam experience changes people, some people more than others. Mary Ann was a very extreme change she didn't just change as a person she seemed to become part of Vietnam. At first i thought it would be like any other of the little stories i figured the story would end in some high rank official finding out she was there and then being extremely mad and sending her home. It had a much more satisfying ending as Mary Ann was able to stay where she was happy. Vietnam has an effect on people with most wars the horrors and the bad things that happen to them sculpt and change them into different people by the end of the war. We all experience awful painful events that help to make us who we are today. I have gone through three knee dislocations and a surgery it has caused me to be more cautious and think about more what i am doing and the effects on my life.
ReplyDeleteMary Bell changed because of the changing environments. Going from the United States to Vietnam could change anybody. Rat Kiley had a first hand experience and he is able to add something special to the story with his own little twists. It shows that during the war Vietnam was a harsh environment that could even crack the best of people. This story really showed me that the war wasn't only affecting soldiers but everybody in Vietnam. Vietnam is life once something bad happens in your life you will never be able to be the same person after.
ReplyDelete-Anthony Bomia
In “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong,” Mary Anne Bell’s curiosity is what caused her transformation. Mary Anne Bell liked the mystery of Vietnam and it changed her. She was fascinated by everything that was there in Vietnam. Rat Kiley’s telling of the story adds to the tension of it because he had a tendency to stop now and then. He would interrupt the flow and add little bits of clarification or bits of analysis and personal opinion. The story says that Vietnam changes you and you can never go back to the way you were before it. Everyone can relate to this because if you lose someone close to you like a friend or family member then you don't really go back to who you were before they passed.
ReplyDelete-Dale Davis
In “Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong,” Mary Anne Bell becomes a product of her environment. Mary Anne Bell went from a sweet city girl to a dirty soldier. Essentially, this story proves that war changes people. Mary Anne had no choice but to become tough in order to survive Vietnam. Going on missions with the Greenies became her life. Her transformation shows the Vietnam experience is not for everyone. Rat Kiley’s telling of the transformation of Mary Anne Bell adds a dramatic twist to the story. Rat Kiley would draw out his words and add dramatic pauses to hook the audience. I was not surprised by this story. People change all the time and Mary Anne Bell is just another example of it. I agree with O’Brien. I believe that everyone reacts to an event that happens in their life and that’s what makes each of us different. A situation can change a person for the better just as easily as it can change a person for the worst.
ReplyDeleteBeing sheltered her whole life in America and coming into the gore and death that came with The Vietnam War it’s easy to see how everyone would be transformed by it. But Anne bell loved the adventure, the excitement, and the thrill that came with the war. The story of Anne shows the true mental change you face when placed in such a vastly different environment, you must adapt and think is a whole different state of mind. I was shocked when reading this story, along with how almost shaken Rat Kiley seemed when telling it really made me think of if I were over there and what I would do.
ReplyDeleteI think O’Brien’s quote: "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" (114) tell that even once out of Vietnam, Vietnam is never out of you. Much the same in life as well, all the big events in your life stay with you for better or worse and shape you into who you are today.
Mary Anne Bell's curiosity about Vietnam is what caused her transfemation. Marry Anne bell was was fascinated by everything in Vietnam, which caused her to change. Rat Kiley was in love with Marry Anne Bell, and the story was told from his point of view. Rat Kiley always added his own little twist to the story as he told it. This story is a story that almost everyone can relate to. For example, if you lose someone very close to you you will change and the people around you will change and sometimes you can't go back to being "normal".
ReplyDeleteIn "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong", it paints the picture of how no one is safe from the affects of war. That it changes something deep inside. It's because of that it adds tension to the group, it gave the thought of if an innocent girl is that deeply affected by Vietnam, how much has and will change me?
ReplyDeleteThe story is a sad tale of the love that died between Mark Fossie and Mary Anne Bell. It shows the reality that people change and as that happens the person you love doesn't always change into someone you still recognize.
Mary Anne Bell was Mark Fossie's girlfriend form Ohio. Mary Anne Belle really wanted to fit in with the rest of the soldiers there. She did various tasks that the other soldiers would do. The whole situation went to her head and she went a little nuts. She became attached to the land and went from this sweet pretty girl to this almost unrecognizable person. Rat Kiley's way of telling the story by adding in details, pausing, and putting in his own personal opinion of the situation added to the tension. The story showed how the war really changed the way the soldiers thought and acted. I was shocked how she had changed and how Mark Fossie slowly lost the love of his life. My response to the quote is that it is very true. The soldiers came over clean and innocent, then seeing friends, enemies, and others die, it was traumatizing for the soldiers. The images, sounds, and smells never left them after Vietnam. There are certain things you never forget like when a loved one passes away. It makes you change your perspective on life and makes you think deeply about how things could've been.
ReplyDeleteI think the transformation in Mary Anne Bell comes from the atmosphere of Vietnam, being in the same country as a war changes people. Rat Kiley sure does not help any because, “For Rat Kiley, I think, facts were formed by sensation, not the other way around, and when you listened to one of his stories, you’d find yourself performing rapid calculations in your head, subtracting superlatives, figuring the square root of an absolute and then multiplying by maybe,” ( 85-86) this quote itself proves Kiley to be a very untrustworthy source. If I took anything out of this chapter it was that I have no idea what the soldiers endured. Those of us who were not involved with the war can sympathize and pretend to feel the slightest bit of sorrow for those who were, but even Mary Anne Bell is a prime example of how Vietnam really was. It changed a bubbly girl who was in love with a solider to someone with no emotions and horrible taste in jewelry.
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ReplyDeleteThroughout Mary Anne Bell's time in Vietnam she is exposed to death, and gore, and other casualties involved in war, and in turn it changed her. While there she was allowed to take more of a masculine role along with that new found freedom she allowed the land to change her. The way Rat Kiley told the story was in his biased opinion and added unnecessary tension. I think it's sad how Mark Fossie lost the love of his life to a mysterious land. The story shows how ones experiences in Vietnam changed them and affected their lives. The quote goes along with this very well; the people there like Mary Anne Bell and Mark Fossie were exposed to death, and gore, and things one will see in war, they witnessed death and the cruelty of war and in turn it changed them.
ReplyDelete"Sweetheart of Song Tra Bong", Mary Anne Bell was changed and almost moved by the war and the culture of where the war took place. She had flown to
ReplyDeleteVietnam from Ohio, during the war to see her boyfriend. Rat Kiley had a huge problem with over exaggerating, so the story that he had told Tim was hard to believe. When I think of Mary Anne Bell, I see her as an innocent, naive and almost immature. Throughout the war she would become crazy as things would change. She also grew up a bit because she learned from each new situation. You will experiance new things as you try new things, such as visiting the war.
The reason that Mary Anne Bell transformed from being curious, and amazed by the lifestyle and experience of Vietnam. She was all into the war wanted to find out more and more each day. While on the other hand she was leaving Fossie in the dust. The Vietnam experience enticed the life of Mary Ann. She wanted to become more involved with Vietnam than her boyfriend Fossie. My reaction to this story was astonishment. Never did I ever think at the beginning of this chapter that Mary Ann would become a soldier. What I thought is that she would marry Fossie and they would live a wonderful life together after the war. I was completely taken back when she became the person of war.
ReplyDeleteIn "Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong" Rat Kiley starts off telling the soldiers the story of an innocent girl who got sucked into Vietnam. I believe that the atmosphere of Vietnam changed Mary Anne Bell. She went from an innocent country, completely oblivious to the gore of the war, to being right in the middle of it. Kiley's telling of the story adds to the tension because he tells it the way he experienced it. It wasn't a continuous story, so Kiley added pauses and breaks to stir the men up and make it seem less like a story and more like an actual event. He made the men want to know what came next.This story really makes the readers realize that Vietnam really did change people. Once they left the comfort of the United States, they became soldiers and were never the same. I was honestly kind of scared at the change in Mary Anne. Seeing what happened to her really opened my eyes to what can happen in war.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the quote stated in the question means that once you experience something, that experience is part of you. I think that it relates to Vietnam in the sense that these men came into the country as innocent young soldiers and once they saw the destruction, they went home as changed men. I do believe that this can also relate to real life. Any event that you go into innocently and blindly can change you permanently. All in all, I think that this chapter is one of the strongest chapters emotionally, and really brings out a different side to Vietnam and war in general.
Mary Anne Bell is a sweet innocent girl from Ohio ho flew to Vietnam to see her boyfriend. While in Vietnam Mary sees all the tension ad the was war life was. Rat Kiley likes to exaggerate the stories he tells., adding unnecessary details to make the story seem more full. Vietnam or just war in general can change a person even if there only there for a couple of weeks. It can change a person for a lifetime. To me Mary Anne's transformation seemed a little over the top. I don't think anyone can change that much in such a short period of time. O'Brien is right you come over innocent and clean and leave with things you wish you could erase from your memory. Like Vietnam most soldiers went in unaware of what war truly was and when they saw it firsthand they became changed men. Going into any activity not sure what to expect can be related to this.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell was changed by Vietnam because she was forced to endure and see things that no human should ever have to. Mary Anne Bell became used to the procedures and lifestyle a soldier had to go through while being in Vietnam during the war. It started out small by Mary Anne Bell doing going through small things like working to heal wounded soldiers. The first sign of her changes was her cutting her hair short. Eventually, the young girl adapts to her surroundings and starts to do crazy and weird things, like wearing human tongues in a necklace. Rat Kiley telling the story shows tension because he is a very frustrating story-teller. Rat Kiley often skips around in his stories and stops randomly. However, O’Brien also states in the beginning of the section that Rat Kiley was known for exaggerating stories. This story shows that the Vietnam experience can change a person for the rest of their life. I reacted to this story by feeling bad for Mark Fossie as he thought it would be a great idea to see his lover again and bring her to Vietnam, while in reality is just changed her for the worse and ruined everything with them. I feel O’Brien’s quote "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" shows that after being exposed to certain things (like things you would see during the war), it can change your life and you will never be able to be the same person that you once were. This can relate to soldiers in Vietnam by several soldiers getting PTSD later in life. This can also relate to the real world by people changing due to traumatic experiences that happen all the time, like death.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell’s transformation was caused by her curiosity upon arrival. Her thirst for knowledge and adventure in a new world caused her to want to explore more of Vietnam and eventually go off with the Green Berets.
ReplyDeleteRat Kiley would constantly pause and remain silent for a while and would never smile or show too much emotion toward the story. If Kiley ever did show emotion it would be sadness or anger as he would get angry at people for questioning the credibility of the story he was telling. His emotion and pauses left the men wondering how the story would end.
This story says that Vietnam has a great ability to change people no matter who they are. It also says that it affected people differently in how it changed them. For instance, Vietnam brought out the adventurous side of Mary Anne Bell and caused her to fall in love with Vietnam to the point where she would never return home again.
I was very surprised at the outcome of this story and surprised at how much Mary Anne Bell changed. She becomes almost vicious and uncaring toward a man she loved for many years. It surprised me that rather than staying with the Green Berets she went off into the wild on her own never to return again.
When O’Brien says this quote he is saying that once people entered the war it changed them in a way in which they would never change back. It corrupted many due to what they experienced over in Vietnam and no one forgot what happened to them in Vietnam. This quote could apply to life as we enter the world clean and innocent then slowly we are exposed to more negativity and terrible things and we soon become “dirty” or corrupted and our different life experiences shape who we are, negative and positive alike.
Mary Anne Bell's transformation was caused by her innocence and curiosity of Vietnam. She was changed by the lifestyle and culture of Vietnam. Rat Kiley is known for exaggerating the truth and he showed anger when anyone would question the story. This story showed how people could be affected differently by Vietnam. Mary Anne was sucked into the Vietnamese culture. This is surprising to me because I would never suspect an U.S. citizen leaving their country for Vietnam. She also didn't love her man anymore and changed in many weird ways. Such as wearing an necklace of tongues. This story shows how much people can change in Vietnam.
ReplyDeleteBy having Rat Kiley tell the story of Mary Anne Bell there was tension added to the story by the way in which he told it. He often added his own thoughts and opinions to the story instead of just staying with the real story-line. The story was meant to show how Vietnam can change people. It can take innocents away from anyone. You don't come back from the war the same person that you left as. My reaction from the story only further heightened that sense of how the war changes people. You can't be in that type of environment and not change who you are as a person or change your view on the world.
ReplyDeleteThe quote that O'Brien stated says how ultimately your life changes from being in war. O'Brien started off scared and all he thought about was how he wanted to live and survive the war. He was terrified of the war. Once he was surrounded by that environment each day of his life though, it became all he knew. The sheer thought of being anywhere else was strange, foreign almost. In today's society people are going through things that some people will never understand. People are either going to deal with the circumstances that life deals them, or they are going to let these things change who they are as a person.
When Mary Anne arrived in Vietnam she was a sweet and naive girl, but she quickly became someone completely different. By the end of her story she is part of the Green Berets with no more concern about her boyfriend she had initially come to visit. The cause of this transformation is explained by Mary Anne herself, "when I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving... You can't feel like that anywhere else." The adrenaline and sensation that war brought about for her truly were unlike anything she had ever felt.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien's quote "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" reflects the fact that our choices in life mold and shape who we become. Just like Mary Anne was influenced by the war in Vietnam, we are influenced by the people, media, and culture around us. We start out with pure intentions and then we get dirty, we involve ourselves in things that maybe we shouldn't. After you do something you regret it is hard to forget about. You may try and try but like O'Brien says, "afterward it's never the same". This illustrates the concept that wounds can heal, but they tend to leave a nasty scar.
Initially from the telling of the story I was shocked that a girl friend like Mary Anne would just up and leave to go to Vietnam. If you look at how hard it was for even O'Brien to join the war, Mary Anne is much more willing. She got so involved by just being curious and embracing the culture of the place she visited, it made sense since she wished to travel the world. However, the necklace of tongues gave me a little shock, as I didn't picture Mary Anne embracing herself that much into customs and traditions of the Vietnamese.
ReplyDeleteIt is very hard to understand why a girl like Mary Anne would come over to Vietnam so willingly. For O'Brien to leave his hometown it was very difficult and he was scared to leave. When Mary Anne arrives she was all dressed up like a city girl but in the next few days that changes drastically. Mary Anne is so curious about everything going on and wants to help and be involved. She isn't hesitant to work on the wounded soldiers as a lot of other medics had been. She learns to take apart and shoot an M-16. Because of how involved she was, she practically forgot about the main reason she came to Vietnam for. She goes from city girl to Green Beret by the end of the story.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell came to Vietnam innocent and curious. She also had a large capacity to learn. She had an open mind and heart. Mary Anne Bell learned more and more about the war in Vietnam. The cruelness and coldness of the war caused a change in her. Rat Kiley was a notorious story teller. Everyone knew he would change every number and exaggerate every detail. The fact that Kiley was so sure that he was telling the truth added tension to the story. Rat Kiley was also involved in the story so it was someone with first hand experience telling the story. Vietnam was a place where you got mentally tougher or died in the process. Vietnam was not a place for everyone. Some people like Mary Anne thrived and others like Rat Kiley, who shot his own foot, did not. Vietnam hardened the minds and hearts of its inhabitants. When O'Brien says, "What happened to her...was what happened to all of them. You come over clean and you get dirty and then afterward it's never the same" he means that Vietnam and the war change who you are in an unrepairable way. Vietnam forced those men to grow up. Likewise in life you reach a point where you lose your innocence and are forced to grow up and face the reality of how cruel our world really is.
ReplyDeleteWhen Mary Anne Bell arrived in Vietnam she was young and innocent. She was curious about the world. She said she loved Vietnam saying it made her feel alive and she changed almost instantly. Everything about that place made her interested in the whole idea of Vietnam. The thing with Rat's story is that he put so much of his own Intel and emotion in the story that he was changing the "tone" and almost confusing in a way. It added to the tension because in the beginning he made it seem like she just became more free and changed for the better but in the end it wasn't. This story shows how Vietnam experience can really change a person because of adrenaline and feeling of courage. In my eyes I thought the girl was just stupid and naive, believing she was invincible when in reality became a adrenaline junkie. My reaction to the story was confusing, I felt almost like it couldn't be possible to be a totally different person, especially since they weren't really in the war, because they said there wasn't much violence there. I did like how Rat put his own emotions and views in the story though, unlike Sanders.I think that quote applies to Vietnam because so many people went over young and innocent but in the end they had to grow up fast and accept what they had to go through, so obviously they would change. I think you can relate that to life because after high school you're thrown into grownup hood, making your own decisions and you have deal with the world and how not innocent it really is.
ReplyDeleteAs Mary Anne Bell stays in Vietnam, it opens her eyes to how different it is in different parts of the world. She sees the war as real people going through real struggles. Mary Anne refused to go back home, even when things started to get dangerous. She had fully immersed herself in the culture of Vietnam, and it fascinated her. She did not want to go back to her normal life after experiencing new things.
ReplyDeleteI think this quote means that seeing the war first hand, you realize how real it all is. Things you thought you could only see in movies were happening right in front of you, and you were really a part of it. Being so young, it was something Mary Anne could only dream of doing. In the beginning of her stay, she was talkative and wore nice clothing. As the month moved on she put her hair up and kept to herself most of the time. She wasn't eager to go home and started going out at night by herself, which was extremely dangerous. Vietnam changed her as it had changed them all.
What caused the transformation in Marry Anne was the new freedom she had and being engulfed in a whole new world. Rat Kileys version of the story adds suspense when hes about to get to the good parts and he trails off telling little details. The story shows how easily Vietnam can change someone in such short time. This story amazed me because Mary Anne went from being just a curious girl to being a killer that went out with the Green Barrett on night missions.
ReplyDeleteBeing in a completely different place than home is what transformed Mary Anne Bell. She left her home willingly to go to Vietnam and did not go through the beginning struggles that O’Brien went through before joining the war. Marry Anne is put into a new world with new customs and different experiences than what she is accustomed to. I think Rat Kiley’s story adds tension by shocking everyone that his story is true. The story exclaims how easily a place like Vietnam can change anyone in some way. I think the quote applies to Vietnam because of how dramatically war and being away from home can affect a person’s mental state. You can relate is idea to life because people can befriend others and given time, they no longer become who you knew they become like others you know.
ReplyDeleteI was so surprised to see a girl like Mary Anne go so freely to Vietnam. She transformed into a different person because she was able to learn new customs in a different country. She even began to pick up the language Vietnamese. Rat Kiley tells how any experience in an individuals lifetime can influence on what their character becomes in the future. The Vietnam experience shows how there's ups and downs in any event that goes on. Mary Anne does very well in Vietnam while other people doe in combat who obviously do not do as well. I was taken back quite a bit because I thought that Vietnam was a bad place for everyone to be when the war was going on. O'Brien's quote shows how people can change forever during an event that influences them and they never go back to their old selves before the event. People in Vietnam saw and experienced things that they never wished to see, such as the mass amounts of killing that were taking place. In life, people can experience events that help them understand what the true world is and what goes on in it.
ReplyDeleteMary Anne went to Vietnam so willingly it was almost shocking, but also somewhat comforting. It completely changed who she is as a person though, as going to war would anyone. Going into war means having the control over yourself that would would be able to complete any task given to you or come across. Even if it is not one you would ever want to do. War also meant experiencing things that would change you forever. The things you would see, people being killed, people changing from the beginning to end of the war, and everything in-between. The war in Vietnam would easily change anyone who served in it, just as it had so drastically transformed the girl Mary Anne entered the war as into the soldier she became.
ReplyDeleteWhat caused the transformation in Mary Anne Bell is how she started to adapt what it’s like to be in the war. It’s a different place then home and she is how it is in other countries. When Rat Kiley tells the story it adds a level of curiosity and fear of what is next that this girl is going to do. But most importantly the story says about the Vietnam experience is that it will change you as not just how you think but as an individual. Why? Because people that have been to war not only see the close people die but also vanish as whom they were when they first meant. You experience things that not a normal person that goes on with their daily life would. Just how Mary Anne was a sweet seventeen year old when she came over so willing to someone who was out being the jungle to hunt and Mary Anne herself wasn’t there anymore. My reaction to this story is that war is a powerful matter and that it can change your life in numerous ways.
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ReplyDeleteMary Anne Bell was transformed by Vietnam. When she arrived she was innocent and curious about the world outside America but after witnessing the cruelness of the war changed her as an individual. Rat Kiley gets off topic well telling the story which builds tension and keeps you coming back. The story shows that Vietnam changed people. The terrible things you would see would have an emotional toll on anyone. My reaction to the story was shock. I was shocked the Mary Anne was so willing to help the wounded soldiers. I was also shocked how horrible of a place Vietnam was to be during that time. O'Brien's quote shows once you experience war you will never forget it. Everyone touched by Vietnam was effected in some way. I think this quote can be applied to situations in real life too. After traumatic experiences people will remember that fear and maybe come out of it different
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